MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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David Collins
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MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by David Collins »

I heard something from a friend and wanted to see if I could get confirmation. He told me that the MMRR’s lease on their line is expiring in 2025 and they’re not going to file another form. Is this actually going to happen? Seems a bit fishy but I felt it was worth asking here.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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If I remember correctly this rumor started last year when one of the young local Holland Michigan area Youtubers supposedly spoke to a member of one of the local crews. If I can remember how the story went a year ago it was that CSX was not going to renew the lease because Genesee and Wyoming was not properly maintaining the track. So the only thing that I can tell you David Collins is to take what you do here with a grain of salt depending on who you’re getting your information from.
I do believe the rumor originated and was talked about on the Bangor web chat.
Last edited by GRHC on Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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GRHC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:17 pm
So the only thing that I can tell you David Collins is to take what you do here with a grain of salt depending on who you’re getting your information from.
Well the majority of my sources suck, so that’s why I’m asking here :lol:
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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David Collins wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:26 pm
GRHC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:17 pm
So the only thing that I can tell you David Collins is to take what you do here with a grain of salt depending on who you’re getting your information from.
Well the majority of my sources suck, so that’s why I’m asking here :lol:
You know, it will be interesting to see what railroad line takes over the Michigan Shore’s line. Will Michigan Shore’s line turn abandoned over time. I also didn’t realize the train tracks that runs parallel to M-37 by the airport was a abandoned CSX train line.
Last edited by Andy24 on Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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It will be interesting to see what happens in 2025 I’m sure the Genesee and Wyoming and CSX will probably sit down and renegotiate the lease if it is to continue. The railroad has seen such a massive loss of traffic since CSX gave up control of the line. Sappi paper is gone Gerber no longer ships by rail Dana Corporation has stopped shipping by rail and I believe no longer has a track to their facility.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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the information in this pdf states mid-michigan bought, not leased, the line from csx
https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Projec ... fc13937dd2

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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DaveO wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:09 pm
the information in this pdf states mid-michigan bought, not leased, the line from csx
https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Projec ... fc13937dd2
I think that is a miss read on your part Dave O they are talking about the line from Grand Rapids Michigan to Ludington and Manistee Michigan.
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Last edited by GRHC on Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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Michigan Shores is lossing the sand traffic, the sand will come from Yuma on the GLC. There has been crews working at the plant in Yuma for the last month and GLC is doing some minor track work cense the line has sat dormant for the last five years. The Yuma plant is waiting for parts to come from over-seas before they can get rolling again.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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look at dec 18, 1987

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by GRHC »

GP-35 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21 pm
Michigan Shores is lossing the sand traffic, the sand will come from Yuma on the GLC. There has been crews working at the plant in Yuma for the last month and GLC is doing some minor track work cense the line has sat dormant for the last five years. The Yuma plant is waiting for parts to come from over-seas before they can get rolling again.
Did you make a post once about how they were going to relay track up to Hershey Michigan to the potash mine. I think that was you I could be mistaken and if it was you did they get that track down yet. lol

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by ~Z~ »

From what I remember, Michigan Shore is leasing the CSX line between West Olive and Fremont, started in 2005, said it was a 25 year lease, so we likely still have until 2030 to have any real changes to the railline. Unless there was a change later on and they ended up buying the line, but as far as I know, still leased.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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DaveO wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:22 pm
look at dec 18, 1987
Still not quite right Dave O there were two rail lines in Muskegon the original Michigan Shore purchased what was left of the old GTW trackage. They lease part of what they have now from the CSX I do believe. Maybe somebody else could clear it up and that somebody else is SD80MAC because the guy does know his stuff when it comes to matters such as these.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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I'm talking about the mid-michigan line.

original post stated mmrr. not michigan shore.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by GRHC »

DaveO wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:04 pm
I'm talking about the mid-michigan line.

original post stated mmrr. not michigan shore.
Wow that changes everything so now I don’t know what David was talking about. So David you need to clear it up are you talking about the Michigan Shore your are you talking about a different line.
According to Dave O’s information the MM is not leased so then your source is full of crap. lol
Last edited by GRHC on Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by SD80MAC »

You guys all appear to be talking about different lines.

Muskegon to West Olive is Michigan Shore.

Ludington, Manistee, Baldwin etc is Marquette Rail.

The actual Mid Michigan RR is the line from Alma to Paines. MMRR itself is going to be merged into the Huron & Eastern, per the latest G&W plans. The railroad isn't going away, it's just going to be operated as part of the HESR (which it almost is currently anyway). The MMRR crews will have to decide if they want to go to HESR or go to the Grand Rapids Eastern or Michigan Shore.

Here's where it gets muddy. "Mid Michigan Railroad" has been the overall umbrella company for the MMRR, GRE, and MS since the 90s in the RailTex era. All of the crews are technically MMRR employees. When G&W bought Rail America, the original goal was to make the MS, GRE, and MMRR all simply "Mid Michigan RR", but that never wound up happening. That is why locomotives 2019, 2057, 2169, and 2170 all are lettered for MMRR. The only reason that GR 2104 is lettered for Grand Rapids Eastern is due to the efforts of some local management.

So yes, MMRR soon will cease to exist. Its operations will be folded into HESR. GRE and MS will be operated as separate entities but will likely still share crews like they do now. GRE is supposed to be going to 5 days per week operations soon as well.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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GP-35 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21 pm
Michigan Shores is lossing the sand traffic, the sand will come from Yuma on the GLC. There has been crews working at the plant in Yuma for the last month and GLC is doing some minor track work cense the line has sat dormant for the last five years. The Yuma plant is waiting for parts to come from over-seas before they can get rolling again.
Interesting
Forgive my ignorance but hasn't the prospect of Yuma sand been reported a number of times over the past few years with no actual shipments. Not to discredit your reporting GP-35 but am also curious you know?
SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:13 pm
GRE is supposed to be going to 5 days per week operations soon as well.
Is this to do with King's recent expansion?

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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Yes. King wants 5 days a week service.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:17 pm
When does the Michigan Shore(GW) lease with the CSX expire?

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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~Z~ said 2030 IIRC
GRHC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:45 pm
SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:17 pm
When does the Michigan Shore(GW) lease with the CSX expire?
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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Who will operate the Yuma Mine?
GP-35 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:21 pm
Michigan Shores is lossing the sand traffic, the sand will come from Yuma on the GLC. There has been crews working at the plant in Yuma for the last month and GLC is doing some minor track work cense the line has sat dormant for the last five years. The Yuma plant is waiting for parts to come from over-seas before they can get rolling again.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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