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East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
MOW has cleared main 2 at East Palestine, OH. 22X just got their light at LUM so things should slowly return to normal
Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Or.......God forbid, the current DOT "Mr Vacation".Hope that was sarcasm. Yeah, let's put the bureaucrats who run who run Amtrak, the Postal Service, the Secretary of State's office etc. in charge of the freight railroads
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Anyone read about the chemicals they've been releasing and burning? Quite a few reports of dead fish, foxes dying, chickens slowing down and producing different colored eggs. The burning of vinyl chloride produces phosgene. Phosgene is a chemical warfare agent that will cause pulmonary edema; fluid build-up in lungs aka drowning on dry land. It is also heavier than air and collects in areas it is released in, hence it kills effectively. It takes hours to break down in high concentrations.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/animals-s ... ain-crash/
https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/animals-s ... ain-crash/
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Nasty stuff.~Z~ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:21 amAnyone read about the chemicals they've been releasing and burning? Quite a few reports of dead fish, foxes dying, chickens slowing down and producing different colored eggs. The burning of vinyl chloride produces phosgene. Phosgene is a chemical warfare agent that will cause pulmonary edema; fluid build-up in lungs aka drowning on dry land. It is also heavier than air and collects in areas it is released in, hence it kills effectively. It takes hours to break down in high concentrations.
https://nypost.com/2023/02/10/animals-s ... ain-crash/
Unfortunately a lot of nasty stuff needs created and moved around to support our modern lives. Vinyl Chloride is a primary ingredient in PVC.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
No, but the class 1's are pretty stupid.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:07 amSo a one-in-a-billion mechanical failure is cause to nationalize?
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
What does that actually mean? How do you define and quantify stupid? Examples? You seem to be generalizing and not supporting your statements. Stirring the pot maybe? OK. I can appreciate that too.MrAnderson wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:13 pmNo, but the class 1's are pretty stupid.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:07 amSo a one-in-a-billion mechanical failure is cause to nationalize?
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
How is that ??No, but the class 1's are pretty stupid.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
An organization can be overall poorly managed and still not really be responsible for an incident. So far, there isn’t much to suggest that NS did anything negligent here.MrAnderson wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 3:13 pmNo, but the class 1's are pretty stupid.Saturnalia wrote: ↑Wed Feb 08, 2023 7:07 amSo a one-in-a-billion mechanical failure is cause to nationalize?
The Class Ones can be argued to be poorly managed in many ways, but honestly, engineering is not one of them. Wrecking trains is extremely expensive and a major risk to their bottom line, so they’ve poured billions into keeping trains on the track. There are still wrecks - obviously - but the rate they happen has continued to fall.
Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
A video surveillance camera showed the train in Salem, Ohio, with flaming equipment under a covered hopper.
According to this news report, the location is approximately 20 miles from where the train derailed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHiXZUgQEwc
A different news report with additional discussion of the same video footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5rhdOTcVs0
According to this news report, the location is approximately 20 miles from where the train derailed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHiXZUgQEwc
A different news report with additional discussion of the same video footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5rhdOTcVs0
Last edited by CM44AC on Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Personally just what I've learned (not an expert obviously). Is that the class 1's want the highest operating ratio because money. This has lead to ever decreasing numbers of workers, which means remaining crews are worked harder for longer, increasing chance of operator and maintenance errors. NOT SAYING THAT WAS WHAT CAUSED THIS SPECIFIC INCIDENT. They also will prioritize their freight over passenger trains (I know there are laws that say they can't but they do). Since I think increasing passenger train travel is crucial in our fight against climate change and just a better form of transport you see how there are conflicts. There are the workers rights issues with sick days etc. Deferred maintenance, decreasing local traffic, failed PSR implementations and lack of interest in capital investment show how much class 1s care about operating a good railroad, just a profitable one.
Yes these are generalizations but indicative of trends.
Sorry I didn't mean to turn this into a rant or go off topic.
Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
So who is going to pay the millions, and possibly billions, in lawsuits that are going to come out of this?Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:13 am
An organization can be overall poorly managed and still not really be responsible for an incident. So far, there isn’t much to suggest that NS did anything negligent here.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
That is true for EVERY business. If a business does not make a profit, unlike the Federal Gov't, these businesses will be done. Now if said business is a Corporation, then the Dividend Thirsty Shareholders better get their check, or they go elsewhere. Making a profit is NOT evil.Is that the class 1's want the highest operating ratio because money.
So, if throwing someone under the bus is what is one is looking for, then there are a lot of candidates.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
It is still their responsibility, even though I don't think there's much to suggest gross negligence at this point. You don't have to be negligent to be sued necessarily.J T wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:34 pmSo who is going to pay the millions, and possibly billions, in lawsuits that are going to come out of this?Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:13 am
An organization can be overall poorly managed and still not really be responsible for an incident. So far, there isn’t much to suggest that NS did anything negligent here.
Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Negligence and liability are not mutually exclusiveSaturnalia wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 7:20 amIt is still their responsibility, even though I don't think there's much to suggest gross negligence at this point. You don't have to be negligent to be sued necessarily.J T wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:34 pmSo who is going to pay the millions, and possibly billions, in lawsuits that are going to come out of this?Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:13 am
An organization can be overall poorly managed and still not really be responsible for an incident. So far, there isn’t much to suggest that NS did anything negligent here.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Are there any damage estimates yet? It's got to be at least in the hundreds of millions.
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Re: East Palestine, Ohio Major NS Derailment
Here's what NS did that makes them negligent:Saturnalia wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:13 amAn organization can be overall poorly managed and still not really be responsible for an incident. So far, there isn’t much to suggest that NS did anything negligent here.
The Class Ones can be argued to be poorly managed in many ways, but honestly, engineering is not one of them. Wrecking trains is extremely expensive and a major risk to their bottom line, so they’ve poured billions into keeping trains on the track. There are still wrecks - obviously - but the rate they happen has continued to fall.
-Drastically cut workforce including car mechanical staffing
-Reduced time per railcar inspection in half
-Forced employees to overlook safety and get the job done
-Created a culture of human robots who no longer value their careers and are just simply depressed
It's barely an engineering problem, it's an overall management problem. They sent one regional hazmat guy to go mitigate a whole ass environmental disaster, and managed to make the town uninhabitable in the process. The investors who own them demand this kind of business model, and it's the very reason why railroading as a whole is in trouble.
Also, they totally budget for these incidents to happen. That's the business stategy their Wall St overlords demand. Don't do any continual investment, only try to recruit when the STB forces you to, and deny deny deny. $1,000,000 to the town is laughable. For every citizen that's only $200.
"Sorry we killed your dogs and made your house uninhabitable, but heres $200, go nuts"
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. Its wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway because bees don't care what humans think is impossible.