CSX Signal Question

[amessmann]

I hate to be the bearer of this news, but there is in fact a signal of R/R/Y in the CSX Chessie Signals rules section. I agree there is no location on the Plymouth Sub that uses this combination, but it must exist somewhere, or it wouldn't be in the book.

I really need to find my footage of the R/R/Y at WAS EE Brighton. I had mentioned it months ago but I have seen that aspect displayed there before, only once though. I wonder if the mechanism failed in the middle aspect.

Not sure if this is relevant but NS does use this signal aspect too on the chicagoline.

Not relevant at all.

Wow, you really told him, huh?

[justalurker66]

Not sure if this is relevant but NS does use this signal aspect too on the chicagoline.

R-R-Y on the Chicago Line is Restricting. As is R-Y on a two headed signal. Sure, NS uses the aspect - but not as "Slow Approach" (unless the yellow is flashing).

A few years ago an Amtrak train entered Chicago on the Chicago Line and passed a Restricting signal. IRRC they called it as a Slow Approach (from an Amtrak rulebook) and an argument ensued. While they were arguing the train ran in to the rear end of a stopped stack train instead of proceeding prepared to stop before such an obstruction. A prime illustration of knowing what rules apply for where you are.

[justin_gram]

Not sure if this is relevant but NS does use this signal aspect too on the chicagoline.

R-R-Y on the Chicago Line is Restricting. As is R-Y on a two headed signal. Sure, NS uses the aspect - but not as "Slow Approach" (unless the yellow is flashing).

A few years ago an Amtrak train entered Chicago on the Chicago Line and passed a Restricting signal. IRRC they called it as a Slow Approach (from an Amtrak rulebook) and an argument ensued. While they were arguing the train ran in to the rear end of a stopped stack train instead of proceeding prepared to stop before such an obstruction. A prime illustration of knowing what rules apply for where you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2r139F ... =railfunny

[Doktor No]

The square signals denote SEABOARD signals.

[David Collins]

I gotta ask, I don’t know much about signaling so humor me, why do railroads use multiple signal books/rules on their entire system?

[DaveO]

I gotta ask, I don’t know much about signaling so humor me, why do railroads use multiple signal books/rules on their entire system?

because they were different railroads at the time the signals were installed.
costs money to change.
railroads don't spend money if they don't need to.
see the dt&i arches and various coaling towers as examples of that thinking.

[BnOEngr]

Yes, there were 3 different sections to the signals in the book after split date. the Seaboard (CSX Standard as they are now called), the "C-" prefix rules which were Chessie (B&O & C&O) and "CR-" prefix which were CR/NORAC aspects.

B&O CPL aspects have been moved to the CSX Standard section, and CSX Standard aspects are being blended in to the Chessie section. As an employee you need to be familiar with what signals are where. The railroads don't care if non-employees don't understand the logic.

I heard many crews call the C&O "Restricting" a Medium Approach. A wonder there weren't more incidents as a result of the ignorance.

[Jovet]

The square signals denote SEABOARD signals.

That's just not the right way to think about it. The title of the rules section "denotes" what type of signals they're talking about. The graphics don't matter beyond the aspects depicted. It's going to be easier/faster/cheaper for whomever updates the rulebook to copy/paste existing graphics than to try and create new ones faithful to the existing ones.

The "Seaboard" section, called Standard signals:


The "Chessie" section:


Copy and Pasting:


The rule number clearly indicates these aspects are in Chessie territory. It doesn't matter what style the graphics are in. CSX has added some traditionally-Seaboard (or traditional speed signaling) signal aspects to Chessie territory. Both Y/Y/D and Y/R/G are acceptable aspects for Approach Slow in Chessie territory. You can try and call them "Seaboard signals" if you want, but they are in the Chessie section!

I gotta ask, I don’t know much about signaling so humor me, why do railroads use multiple signal books/rules on their entire system?

In addition to DaveO's astute reply, I'd like to add that changing the actual signals is just part of the cost. Retraining the crews to understand them also costs money, both in time spent in class instruction, time spent away from performing revenue service, and inevitable mishaps that occur from the changes.

[NoviRailfan]

Gotta love the guy lecturing Dok about the "right way to think about it"...

[pudgy]

I believe the square icons represent searchlight style signals, where one lense displays multiple colors. The multi-light signals are the new standard style in all CSX installations.

Again, I'm not in support of the R/R/Y aspect in use on the Plymouth Sub, having ran over the line regularly for the last 3 years and never seeing it displayed in any of the locations it would make sense. But it's in the rule book, so they either have it as an option from another line, or thought to change the aspect on existing installations if they wished to do so.

[chapmaja]

I believe the square icons represent searchlight style signals, where one lense displays multiple colors. The multi-light signals are the new standard style in all CSX installations.

Again, I'm not in support of the R/R/Y aspect in use on the Plymouth Sub, having ran over the line regularly for the last 3 years and never seeing it displayed in any of the locations it would make sense. But it's in the rule book, so they either have it as an option from another line, or thought to change the aspect on existing installations if they wished to do so.

All I can say is I know what I saw and it was R/R/Y.

[pudgy]

All I can say is I know what I saw and it was R/R/Y.

I can theorize one possibility for you to see that aspect, but it would have been a mechanical failure to do so. Normally get Med Approach into the sidings (R/Y/Y). It's possible the middle aspect failed to display Yellow from the lenses that move within the heads. Ancient technology held together with bubble gum and shoelaces.

And I don't mean to have you feel doubted on your memory. Can only go by what we see every day when we work out there. Yes, that should be the signal we get into nearly every siding, (Slow Approach) as they are nearly all slow speed sidings. In fact, the only siding I recall getting an Approach Slow to a Slow Approach in the entire division up here is Waverly Siding by Holland, which is actually a medium speed siding!!

[Jovet]

Gotta love the guy lecturing Dok about the "right way to think about it"...

I'm sorry, I did not see the eggshells.

I believe the square icons represent searchlight style signals, where one lense displays multiple colors. The multi-light signals are the new standard style in all CSX installations.

They're generic representations. They don't allude to any particular design of colorlight/searchlight signal apparatus.

But it's in the rule book, so they either have it as an option from another line, or thought to change the aspect on existing installations if they wished to do so.

Exactly.

Photographic evidence would be the best way to prove the OP's question. But all it takes is one installation of it on Chessie-signal territory somewhere for it to be wanted in the rulebook (especially if its expansion is anticipated, as opposed to a simpler ETT exception).

[~Z~]

Sounds like you are all missing the one page in the rule book about the Pickle Pickle Ketchup signal aspect. It should be listed in one of the CSX books about the Fostoria area. See this wav file for proof: http://railroadfan.com/images/ttam.wav

[David Collins]

Sounds like you are all missing the one page in the rule book about the Pickle Pickle Ketchup signal aspect. It should be listed in one of the CSX books about the Fostoria area. See this wav file for proof: http://railroadfan.com/images/ttam.wav

Is it like this because the lower head signals around Fostoria can’t show approaches? Because they’re setup as restricting (lunar), stop and clear?

[Doktor No]

SMH. Although the indication is possible on all CSX lines it is not on the signal system east of GRR. Never seen it. Show me a picture of it at that location. Until then, nope. Just because it's possible in lower Ohio on a new system setup, doesn't mean it is on our OLD setup. They would have to change a lot in the box. I stand by the guys that work the trackage on a regular basis, sorta like I did.