RailRoadFan.com

Wondering if anyone has an official gradient chart for the Plymouth Sub. I had seen people mention their charts however scouring the Internet, I have not been able to find any official documentation. If someone has the track profile for CSX's entire Michigan trackage that would be even better. Thank you as always.

Update, I have found a gradient charts in an old timetable I had picked up at a train show. For the Plymouth Sub and the rest of CSX's trackage in Michigan.
Conveniently for you folks in West Michigan, the Grand Rapids Subdivision is on the same page but labeled as the Chicago SD. This timetable was effective 09/01/1984.

There you have it. The ruling eastbound grades are Fox (1%), Thornapple (.99%), and Ann Pere (1.2%). Westbound are Salem (.95%), Lake Odessa (1.8%), and Thornapple (.89%).

Kind of wish it showed elevations along the points.

So just east of Ann Pere is the highest elevation?

MiddleMI wrote: ↑

Sun May 12, 2024 4:05 am

Kind of wish it showed elevations along the points.
So just east of Ann Pere is the highest elevation?

Yeah, the layout of the graph isn't exactly optimal in those regards. It looks like you are correct though, the highest elevation (which I've heard called Canwell Summit) occurs just east of Ann Pere.
The timetable says the summit exists east of the signals at CH 51, however according to other topographic maps it seems the summit sits just west of them, that is also where grain trains have the most trouble getting up the hill. I suppose it doesn't matter much once you squeeze a 150 mile line down to a few inches on paper.
In addition, it looks like the elevation axis on the right side is listed as relative to CH 0 as opposed to sea level, as the summit elevation is around 1000' above sea level, not 400'.

The track profiles in the timetable were meant to be just a handy reference. We had other highly detailed profile books in a folded format that went mile by mile with elevations, road crossings, curvature, bridges, etc. I have several from the 1970's, but none of the Plymouth Sub since it wasn't part of our territory.

amessmann wrote: ↑

Sat May 11, 2024 7:28 pm

Update, I have found a gradient charts in an old timetable I had picked up at a train show. For the Plymouth Sub and the rest of CSX's trackage in Michigan.
Conveniently for you folks in West Michigan, the Grand Rapids Subdivision is on the same page but labeled as the Chicago SD. This timetable was effective 09/01/1984.

Only semi-related to this topic, but does a chart for the Saginaw Subdivision exist in this timetable as well?

Burb8145 wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2024 9:26 am

Only semi-related to this topic, but does a chart for the Saginaw Subdivision exist in this timetable as well?

It is included, yes, just under a different name. It appears that stretch of track, south from Wixom into Ohio, was referred to as the "Toledo Subdivision" back in 1984.

Why don't I just post the whole thing... Included are all five pages of gradient profiles. Listed are the Baldwin, Chicago, Detroit, Ludington, Manistee, Plymouth, Port Huron, Toledo, and Wixom Subdivisions.

If the subdivision names seem funky it's because under C&O Saginaw to Alexis was the Toledo Sub. At that time, Michigan was divided into the Saginaw and Grand Rapids DIVISIONS. Then around 1970, they inserted a Detroit Division which included Detroit to Beck Road Plymouth and Wixom to Alexis. In doing that they renamed Saginaw to Wixom the Wixom Sub and Wixom to Alexis the Toledo Sub. I believe it was 1977 when they combined everything into the Michigan Division. When CSX came along in 1987, they changed Saginaw to Alexis to the Saginaw Sub.

Sometime after that, they changed the Saginaw Sub to be Saginaw (and later, Flint) to Carleton and the Toledo Terminal Sub was extended from Alexis up to Carleton.

My 2005 timetable, if I read correctly, says the Plymouth Subdivision ends near Trowbridge, continuing to Grand Rapids as the "Lansing Subdivision."
The Lansing Subdivision is not listed in the 1984 timetable and is not present in my 2008 or 2011 timetables.

“Lansing Subdivision,” essentially the western half of the current Plymouth Sub., was a new designation probably around 2005 that only lasted a few years. The entire territory was the Plymouth Sub before that, and after, just as it is today. I’m not sure what the purpose was.

For some period of time in the CSX era, the entire Grand Rapids-Baldwin-Ludington route became the Ludington Subdivision. But traditionally, GR to Baldwin was the Baldwin Sub, Baldwin to Ludington the Ludington Sub, and Walhalla to Manistee the Manistee Sub.

Fascinating maps. Thanks for sharing!

I think at one time two different dispatchers handled the Michigan lines, one the west side and one the east side. So, they made the split at Trowbridge and had to create two subs since 2 different dispatchers couldn’t dispatch the same named Sub.

amessmann wrote: ↑

Sat May 18, 2024 12:12 pm

Why don't I just post the whole thing... Included are all five pages of gradient profiles. Listed are the Baldwin, Chicago, Detroit, Ludington, Manistee, Plymouth, Port Huron, Toledo, and Wixom Subdivisions.

Where is Lake Odessa on this (Plymouth Sub) chart?

Lake Odessa is at MP 120.1