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Wondering what the steepest active railroad grade is in Michigan, mainline or not.

There was a logging line near Sidnaw in the UP that was close to 20% I believe. There was an article on it in the 60s or 70s written by Clint Jones.

Seems like on the west side CSX used to assign helpers for a grade near Saugatuck.

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

kd_1014 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:46 pm

Wondering what the steepest active railroad grade is in Michigan, mainline or not.

CN line that is active to L'Anse but still intact albeit oos as far as Baraga. Summit/Herman/L'Anse Hill.

I think that one in the UP takes the cake. Around SEM there is Salem Hill, west of Plymouth.
A few more here: https://michiganrailroads.com/helper-districts

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

It indeed is, underpower a long northbound manifest and/or L515 going back to Pontiac and you’ll be on your knees trying to get up that hill.

GTW would try pulling 50-100 car coal trains up that grade with a pair of GP38's. It happened often enough that it appeared to be deliberate rather than a 3rd or 4th engine suffering a failure enroute. Never understood why they would do that.

David Collins wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:43 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

It indeed is, underpower a long northbound manifest and/or L515 going back to Pontiac and you’ll be on your knees trying to get up that hill.

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

Seems like on the west side CSX used to assign helpers for a grade near Saugatuck.

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

kd_1014 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:46 pm

Wondering what the steepest active railroad grade is in Michigan, mainline or not.

While there isn’t an assigned helper job anymore, there is a tonnage restriction still in place on Saugatuck hill for non-DP trains of 10,000 Tons. The loaded coal trains that climb that hill still add extra power to the train to make it up the hill.

CSXT8390 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:41 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

Seems like on the west side CSX used to assign helpers for a grade near Saugatuck.

While there isn’t an assigned helper job anymore, there is a tonnage restriction still in place on Saugatuck hill for non-DP trains of 10,000 Tons. The loaded coal trains that climb that hill still add extra power to the train to make it up the hill.

There were quite a few trains that were close to 10k tons and stalled out due to engine trouble (PTC, brakes, sanding)

Even DP trains of 10k tons still stalls out. I believe last year, that hill stalled out at least 20 trains.

The GTW Holly Sub grade I believe is around .75% pretty much from the River to South Blvd in Pontiac.

NYC's line from West Branch north to maybe Grayling is a steep one too. Now it is Lakes State's line.

The former DSS&A line out of Marquette west was very steep too. It became Soo Line and then WC and now CN. Also east out of Marquette too until Shingleton, but not as steep.

Don't forget the Detroit River Tunnel. It is like 1.5% towards Canada and maybe 2% towards Detroit. Jerry Pinkepanke wrote an article about the Tunnel years ago and called it "The Rocky Mountains in Reverse.:

The former DT&I line from Adrian south a quarter mile that ABDF uses now to interchange with NS is the steepest I know of and it is all on sharp curve too. A GP9 can only shove five loaded cars up it at a time. I have no idea how DT&I ran freight trains over this line with steam for so long. It used to cross NYC at the bottom but now there is a switch to the former NYC line instead.

from track chart steepest grades on holly sub
big beaver mile 19 to opdyke mile 22 .65%
opydyke 22 to square lake 23 .61%
square lake 23 to yellow cab 24 .67%

1.7 % at MP 60 on the LS&I (between Forestville and Dead River)
1.50% at MP 70 on the LS&I from Empire JCT to Empire Mine Siding
3.8%-4% Hill at Oxy in Ludington on Marquette Rail
1.3-1.9% at Kopje (Woodland Park) Grand Rapids Sub on Marquette Rail
.9-1.5% Both sides of Newaygo Hill (Grant to Muskegon River/Muskegon River to 40th Ave) on Marquette Rail
1-1.3% Comstock Park hill to between 9-10 mile road to Mill Creek on Marquette Rail
1-1.2% Stroanch Hill, Manistee sub MP 104-MP 106, Marquette Rail
.8-1% Freesoil hill, Manistee sub MP 98 at North Custer Road, Marquette Rail

CSXT8390 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:41 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

Seems like on the west side CSX used to assign helpers for a grade near Saugatuck.

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

kd_1014 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 2:46 pm

Wondering what the steepest active railroad grade is in Michigan, mainline or not.

While there isn’t an assigned helper job anymore, there is a tonnage restriction still in place on Saugatuck hill for non-DP trains of 10,000 Tons. The loaded coal trains that climb that hill still add extra power to the train to make it up the hill.

Would you happen to know what the grade % is for the Saugatuck Hill? I've heard 2% and 3%

1.26% for the grade EB on Saugatuck.

FWIW, the hill out of Amway on the GRE in Ada is about 4% give or take.

Eas of Lawrence on WMI is 2.56%

East Saugatuck is 1.2-1.3%. Grand Rapids to Fox is about 1.1%, Fox to Elmdale is about 1.2%. Ann Pere Hill is around 1.3%. Salem (Dehoco) Hill is in that same general steepness.

The GTW (now GRE) ruling grade east out of Grand Rapids to Ada is also about 1.2%.

Tom49801 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:36 am

CSXT8390 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:41 pm

AARR wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:00 pm

Seems like on the west side CSX used to assign helpers for a grade near Saugatuck.

I think the CN grade going north on the holly Sub around Birmingham is rather steep.

While there isn’t an assigned helper job anymore, there is a tonnage restriction still in place on Saugatuck hill for non-DP trains of 10,000 Tons. The loaded coal trains that climb that hill still add extra power to the train to make it up the hill.

Would you happen to know what the grade % is for the Saugatuck Hill? I've heard 2% and 3%

Track charts show from CG 32 to CG 35 a grade variant from 0.1 to -1.3 going west out of GR. So its a roughly 1.3% grade climbing the hill.

Does anyone know the percentage of the grade on L'Anse hill? My notes say 2.8%, but I am not sure that is correct as I cannot find my original source.

Anyone know the grade for the hill that is at West River Drive at the border of northern Grand Rapids/Comstock Park area? I’ve seen Marquette Rail stall out there twice while pulling 144 cars and 140 cars last year or so with 3-4 engines leading.

i995impalass wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:19 am

1-1.3% Comstock Park hill to between 9-10 mile road to Mill Creek on Marquette Rail

Andy ^