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CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:02 pm
by MQT1223
Looks like the end of the CN Lake Orion Sub might finally be here. A couple crossings slated for work out that way aren’t just simply being paved over but removed outright. Looks like no hope for GM to ship out of the stamping plant anymore.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:23 pm
by AARR
MQT1223 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 2:02 pm
Looks like no hope for GM to ship out of the stamping plant anymore.
The stamping plant is/was shipping a few cars a week out by rail. Did you mean the no hope for the Assembly Plant in which case you might be right.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:36 pm
by David Collins
this is the end of the line (pardon the pun), there’s no questioning it. My friend and her family own a RV storage facility near the tracks. One day she and I explored the tracks from the facility all the way to Jocelyn and Brown road. I think I counted cut rails in 3-4 spots.
But my reasoning why there’s never going to be a resurgence is the line is beyond repair and CN (in my opinion) just doesn’t have the money or time to install new tracks/signals. I thought I heard as well that since there’s three crossings all within a mile or less of each other on Joslyn Road that traffic was a real problem.
It’s a bummer, but that’s how things are these days unfortunately…
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:49 pm
by DaveO
The track was rehabbed circa 1983.
Their is nothing wrong with it except lack of rail traffic.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:52 pm
by ns8401
DaveO wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:49 pm
The track was rehabbed circa 1983.
Their is nothing wrong with it except lack of rail traffic.
That and they have the money in spades. I’ve always wondered… this line ran where to where originally?
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:56 pm
by DaveO
The Pontiac, Oxford and Northern went to Caseville.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:58 pm
by LansingRailFan
David Collins wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:36 pm
this is the end of the line (pardon the pun), there’s no questioning it. My friend and her family own a RV storage facility near the tracks. One day she and I explored the tracks from the facility all the way to Jocelyn and Brown road. I think I counted cut rails in 3-4 spots.
But my reasoning why there’s never going to be a resurgence is the line is beyond repair and CN (in my opinion) just doesn’t have the money or time to install new tracks/signals. I thought I heard as well that since there’s three crossings all within a mile or less of each other on Joslyn Road that traffic was a real problem.
It’s a bummer, but that’s how things are these days unfortunately…
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:11 pm
by GTW6401
I still see and photograph trains on the old Cass City Subdivision. They still have regular customers on that line, including the GM Pontiac metal center.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:11 pm
by David Collins
LansingRailFan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:58 pm
David Collins wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 4:36 pm
this is the end of the line (pardon the pun), there’s no questioning it. My friend and her family own a RV storage facility near the tracks. One day she and I explored the tracks from the facility all the way to Jocelyn and Brown road. I think I counted cut rails in 3-4 spots.
But my reasoning why there’s never going to be a resurgence is the line is beyond repair and CN (in my opinion) just doesn’t have the money or time to install new tracks/signals. I thought I heard as well that since there’s three crossings all within a mile or less of each other on Joslyn Road that traffic was a real problem.
It’s a bummer, but that’s how things are these days unfortunately…
I don’t get it
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:25 pm
by Steve B
CN hasn't filed to abandon anything. My guess is that except for grade crossings, the line will stay in place indefinitely until hopefully someday there's high volume production again coming out of that plant-- in 1988 it made about 1,000 a day. Bolt output is paltry compared to that. As far as street congestion, if the plant really starts humming again and there's serious money to be made, CN isn't about to get intimidated by that.
GM did announce $400 million in investment in Orion this year. I'm sure CN is aware of that and is content to let the branch slumber for now, keeping its options open.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:04 pm
by AARR
The Bolyard Lumber transload has been getting 1-2 cars a week most of the year. The scrap yard ships frequently. The GM Metal Center ships too.
GTW6401 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:11 pm
I still see and photograph trains on the old Cass City Subdivision. They still have regular customers on that line, including the GM Pontiac metal center.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:15 pm
by GTW6401
Bolyard has three locations in Rochester Hills, Birmingham and Ann Arbor.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:27 pm
by Chip
Steve B wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 5:25 pm
CN hasn't filed to abandon anything. My guess is that except for grade crossings, the line will stay in place indefinitely until hopefully someday there's high volume production again coming out of that plant-- in 1988 it made about 1,000 a day. Bolt output is paltry compared to that. As far as street congestion, if the plant really starts humming again and there's serious money to be made, CN isn't about to get intimidated by that.
GM did announce $400 million in investment in Orion this year. I'm sure CN is aware of that and is content to let the branch slumber for now, keeping its options open.
Monetary investments into assembly plants don't always translate to more volume, especially if demand for that product isn't very high. In 2019 Ford announced a $250 million investment into Flat Rock as part of the new UAW contract and yet volume has at best held steady since then.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:37 pm
by Chip
I just looked at it on google earth and yeah it looks like there's approximately 0 customers on that line outside of the assembly plant and they don't produce any substantial volume right now.
Also what a screwy route. Why does it cross over Joslyn Rd. 3 different times in as many miles? Stupid.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:11 am
by Racer
Chip, I don’t think the original surveyors that plotted the railroad over a century ago thought the area would develop to what it is today….
In concurrence to AARR, there are those 3 customers on the south end of the Pontiac Belt Line, located north of downtown Pontiac by the old PO&N Junction. The Pontiac Belt Line job from Pontiac Yard doesn’t work anywhere further north than Collier Road where the line goes OOS to Lake Orion Assembly. There is discussions of a recycling center going in east of the old PO&N junction that is supposed to have a 3-track yard where the former Romeo Sub began.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:24 am
by ns8401
Chip wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:37 pm
I just looked at it on google earth and yeah it looks like there's approximately 0 customers on that line outside of the assembly plant and they don't produce any substantial volume right now.
Also what a screwy route. Why does it cross over Joslyn Rd. 3 different times in as many miles? Stupid.
I’d bet money the road has the screwy route and crosses the tracks 3 times in as many miles and not the other way around.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:36 am
by Raildudes dad
ns8401 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:24 am
Chip wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:37 pm
I just looked at it on google earth and yeah it looks like there's approximately 0 customers on that line outside of the assembly plant and they don't produce any substantial volume right now.
Also what a screwy route. Why does it cross over Joslyn Rd. 3 different times in as many miles? Stupid.
I’d bet money the road has the screwy route and crosses the tracks 3 times in as many miles and not the other way around.
Agreed. I'll bet money the RR was there first.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:41 am
by DaveO
Raildudes dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:36 am
Agreed. I'll bet money the RR was there first.
You better find that cash
I checked some of the old maps. Joslyn Road (or whatever it was named) was there first.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:18 pm
by Raildudes dad
DaveO wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:41 am
Raildudes dad wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:36 am
Agreed. I'll bet money the RR was there first.
You better find that cash
I checked some of the old maps. Joslyn Road (or whatever it was named) was there first.
RR's were usually pretty good about acquiring deeds to their ROW. Roads tend to be by user if not statutory section line roads. Deeds win:) It sure has made for some wild crossings.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:47 pm
by GTW6401
Racer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:11 am
Chip, I don’t think the original surveyors that plotted the railroad over a century ago thought the area would develop to what it is today….
In concurrence to AARR, there are those 3 customers on the south end of the Pontiac Belt Line, located north of downtown Pontiac by the old PO&N Junction. The Pontiac Belt Line job from Pontiac Yard doesn’t work anywhere further north than Collier Road where the line goes OOS to Lake Orion Assembly. There is discussions of a recycling center going in east of the old PO&N junction that is supposed to have a 3-track yard where the former Romeo Sub began.
The line to Romeo was nowhere near that part of Pontiac. That was on the south side of town. Its now the Clinton River Trail.
GFL has a yard on Baldwin Avenue but I doubt it will ever use rail.