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Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:27 am
by kd_1014
Did the Pere Marquette place date nails in the ties? I have been looking for ages but I have come up with ZERO. Did they just not place them or are they just rare?

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:12 am
by SD80MAC
You're not going to find any ties on any remaining Pere Marquette trackage that date from the Pere Marquette era anymore. Unless it was some obscure siding or branch line that hasn't seen any maintenance in the last 70 years. It sounds like you're railfanning mostly around Fuller Jct and Grand Rapids. There have been several massive tie replacement projects in the last 20 years that would've removed any that were still around, if there were even any left at that point to begin with.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:57 am
by fredstev
Your guess is as good as mine if these are genuine, but FWIW, check this Ebay link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHOICE-OF-ONE-1936-THRU-1952-DATED-PERE-MARQUETTE-MICHIGAN-RAILROAD-NAIL-/133014396788

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:24 am
by Standard Railfan
kd_1014 wrote:Did the Pere Marquette place date nails in the ties? I have been looking for ages but I have come up with ZERO. Did they just not place them or are they just rare?


Best bet is to find an old pile of removed ties lying along the ROW. There are not many left as the environmental regulators have pushing the railroads to remove such piles.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:47 pm
by Steve B
Railroads often get rid of unusable ties by selling them to powerplants. I don't recall hearing anything about regulators harassing railroads about piles of ties on the R/W. Can you provide a source?

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:21 pm
by Trainman2223
https://www.masslive.com/news/2018/10/p ... 00_fo.html

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/01/s ... il_ti.html

Most are "forced" to remove piles of ties due to fire hazard.

There are a few story's about environmental issues ( creosote & Chromated copper arsenate) and increased risk to the health and safety of the public or first responders.

Ect, Ect.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:39 pm
by Standard Railfan
Steve B wrote:Railroads often get rid of unusable ties by selling them to powerplants. I don't recall hearing anything about regulators harassing railroads about piles of ties on the R/W. Can you provide a source?


Used railroad ties, like most other things, are regulated as solid waste once they have been removed. Most states have very similar rules driven by federal mandates. Most states limit the amount of time that “regulated” solid waste can be stored prior to disposal. I found a useful article from the Missouri DNR discussing the subject. [url]https://dnr.mo.gov/pubs/pub196.htm
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I recall as recently as 10 years ago ties were left on the ROW to rot or piled in back corners of yards. I have not seen anything like that on an operating railroad for some time. The reason for the change? Regulations changed.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:18 pm
by MQT1223
If you want date nails, the last mile of track on the old GT between Grand River Ave and the County Line by Lowell has them still. Some ties have nails in them going from the 30's all the way up to the 60's.

Trainman2223 wrote:https://www.masslive.com/news/2018/10/pan_am_railways_fined_90000_fo.html

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/01/s ... il_ti.html

Most are "forced" to remove piles of ties due to fire hazard.

There are a few story's about environmental issues ( creosote & Chromated copper arsenate) and increased risk to the health and safety of the public or first responders.

Ect, Ect.


Tell those inspectors to go down to the Michigan Southern, massive piles of them laying around in Sturgis. :lol:

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:29 pm
by Standard Railfan
MQT1223 wrote:Tell those inspectors to go down to the Michigan Southern, massive piles of them laying around in Sturgis. :lol:


I am not sure that meets my definition of an operating railroad. :lol:

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:52 pm
by EWRice
The closest you may be able to find is near Michigan Shore's ROW.

The line to the old papermill in Lakeside
The ties still laying in position for the old siding at Pontaluna Rd. (NE corner of crossing between tracks and driveway)
Siding into Verplanks in Ferrysburg.
Siding in front of Grand Haven depot.
Siding from OCRC to Heybor excavating at Hayes St.

The landscape ties I picked up from North yard years back didn't have date nails in them, but one had a small stamped sign nailed to it that said "Re check your lineup". Too short for a switch tie. Always wondered where that would have been used.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:00 pm
by kd_1014
EWRice wrote:The closest you may be able to find is near Michigan Shore's ROW.

The line to the old papermill in Lakeside
The ties still laying in position for the old siding at Pontaluna Rd. (NE corner of crossing between tracks and driveway)
Siding into Verplanks in Ferrysburg.
Siding in front of Grand Haven depot.
Siding from OCRC to Heybor excavating at Hayes St.

The landscape ties I picked up from North yard years back didn't have date nails in them, but one had a small stamped sign nailed to it that said "Re check your lineup". Too short for a switch tie. Always wondered where that would have been used.


Sounds good, thanks. Is the Verplanks in Ferrysburg the old track that's still in place at the boiler factory near Spring Lake or is it another place?

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 pm
by EWRice
The remaining track at the boiler shop is off the old GTW, as is the track under US31 and to the west of the Spring Lake off ramp. Verplanks track is between the swing bridge and 3rd st west of the main. I believe this used to be for Construction Aggregates back in the day.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:43 am
by kd_1014
EWRice wrote:The remaining track at the boiler shop is off the old GTW, as is the track under US31 and to the west of the Spring Lake off ramp. Verplanks track is between the swing bridge and 3rd st west of the main. I believe this used to be for Construction Aggregates back in the day.


Rodger, did the GTW use date nails or no?

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:14 pm
by Doktor No
kd_1014 wrote:
EWRice wrote:The remaining track at the boiler shop is off the old GTW, as is the track under US31 and to the west of the Spring Lake off ramp. Verplanks track is between the swing bridge and 3rd st west of the main. I believe this used to be for Construction Aggregates back in the day.


Rodger, did the GTW use date nails or no?

Yes they did per the note above about the Ex GTW from Lowell Grand River eastward to the county line. There were, at one time, a lot of date nails going up the hill on the now MQT line...Lameroux on up northward...but I assume they were replaced by CSX when we did a large tie replacement a few years back..well 10 plus maybe anyway.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:16 pm
by kd_1014
Doktor No wrote:
kd_1014 wrote:
EWRice wrote:The remaining track at the boiler shop is off the old GTW, as is the track under US31 and to the west of the Spring Lake off ramp. Verplanks track is between the swing bridge and 3rd st west of the main. I believe this used to be for Construction Aggregates back in the day.


Rodger, did the GTW use date nails or no?

Yes they did per the note above about the Ex GTW from Lowell Grand River eastward to the county line. There were, at one time, a lot of date nails going up the hill on the now MQT line...Lameroux on up northward...but I assume they were replaced by CSX when we did a large tie replacement a few years back..well 10 plus maybe anyway.


Thanks for the info.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:34 pm
by Saturnalia
Picked quite a few date nails off the UP Montana and Aberdeen Subs last summer while working out there. Still plenty of "Mormon Ties" still in service on those lower-tonnage lines. These ties are over twice the cross-section of a standard timber today - and that's helped them stick around so long. Mostly installed in the 1930s.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:49 pm
by kd_1014
Thanks for all of the information! I found a 1949 nail in one of the old tie piles near the Alpine Approach signal on the GRE.

Re: Pere Marquette Date Nails

Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:17 pm
by Raildudes dad
There still might be a few on the GR / CPMY. My son got a lot of them over the years