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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:38 pm
by AARR
It will come down to cost. Whichever routing is the lowest cost will most likely win out.
As for frames it is true that truck frames are usually delivered to the assembly plant by rail but there are exceptions. For example, Chrysler in Sterling Heights has its frames delivered by rail to staging area a few blocks away and trucked to the plant as needed.
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 5:00 pm
AARR wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:51 pm
However, keep in mind that they could truck the finished vehicles to a logistics center (like New Boston or Flat Rock or Lansing) and ship them by rail from there.
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:11 pm
So it's highly likely to see this line make a come back then. Also how did you hear about those numbers?
They probably could truck them down there but they wouldn't be able to get as many out of Orion as they could if they just use the railroad, and considering there's a yard that could probably be used too, wouldn't it just be easier for them to ship them out by Orion? Then all they have to do when they get down to Detroit would be to switch lines.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 7:50 pm
by Chip
AARR wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 4:51 pm
Seems like I read it in a Trains Magazine article that 70% of assembled vehicles are shipped by rail. That was probably 3-5 years ago, but I wrote the notes down so I wouldn't forget.
However, keep in mind that they could truck the finished vehicles to a logistics center (like New Boston or Flat Rock or Lansing) and ship them by rail from there.
RoyalKingoftheRails wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 3:11 pm
So it's highly likely to see this line make a come back then. Also how did you hear about those numbers?
I don't think there's a logistics center close enough to the Orion plant for them to truck to. Usually the finished vehicles are actually driven by porters to those logistics centers, that's why you routinely see convoys of Broncos and Rangers driving down 275 South to Sibley, F-150s driving southbound down I-75 to Flat Rock and Mustangs driving up Will Carleton to Carleton. I can't speak for GM and Stellantis but I know Ford tries to limit to a radius of 25 miles from the point of final assembly.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:10 pm
by joeyuboats
The frame staging plant for Chrysler Sterling Heights is literally right across 17 Mile Road, and has its own sidings, 3 if I remember correctly. About 2 to 3 blocks away.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:58 pm
by Chip
joeyuboats wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:10 pm
The frame staging plant for Chrysler Sterling Heights is literally right across 17 Mile Road, and has its own sidings, 3 if I remember correctly. About 2 to 3 blocks away.
I need to investigate how we do it at MAP, because last I checked we don't have a spur that leads onto the property. There's one on the body shop side that has long been disused and no longer runs past the perimeter fence but you can see it there in spring and fall when the trees are void of leaves.
Edit: thanks to the google satellite view I found the spur on the west side of the building off the lead that leads to the NS auto rack loading dock.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:25 am
by DaveO
They used to truck them from Flint to New Boston.
The LSRC managed to get them back on rail.
edit: Here is the latest AAR Automotive Facility Guide that I found online. (from January, 2021)
https://aar.com/standards/pdfs/2021%20A ... 202021.pdf
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:37 am
by GTW Dude
joeyuboats wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 8:10 pm
The frame staging plant for Chrysler Sterling Heights is literally right across 17 Mile Road, and has its own sidings, 3 if I remember correctly. About 2 to 3 blocks away.
You can take the industrial road back there. I took photos this summer but yes i believe it is 3 sidings. really cool how close you can get.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:26 am
by AARR
My understanding is CN gets Flint's westbound loads at their Flint ramps.
But when I see that LSRC is handling 1,000 cars a month of GM's Flint vehicles it seems that's a lot of traffic CN is missing out on.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:07 am
by AARR
A side note both Poletown and Orion were built with loop tracks going through the plants for loads in one side and empties out the other. I am fortunate to be old enough to have seen the operation and rode the Orion switch job one time (back when the train crew could invite railfans on board without getting in trouble).
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:10 pm
by Saturnalia
This is the Michigan equivalent to Ohio's Peavine thread, isn't it? lol
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2022 10:31 pm
by LansingRailFan
AARR wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:26 am
My understanding is CN gets Flint's westbound loads at their Flint ramps.
But when I see that LSRC is handling 1,000 cars a month of GM's Flint vehicles it seems that's a lot of traffic CN is missing out on.
Flint:
CN: EB Canadian loads, WB USA loads to Chicago/IHB or pooled in BC and shipped directly to BNSF, UP etc…
LSRC: any flint loads for CSX ops. They also receive loaded auto racks for any GM dealerships essentially north of Flint including thumb etc…
CN still doing the vast majority of Flint loads as LSRC has a hard time getting empty racks from CSX.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:16 pm
by conrailmike
AARR wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:26 am
My understanding is CN gets Flint's westbound loads at their Flint ramps.
But when I see that LSRC is handling 1,000 cars a month of GM's Flint vehicles it seems that's a lot of traffic CN is missing out on.
1,000 trucks a month is really nothing. We produce 1,000 trucks a day at Flint. Production goal is 380 per shift
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:15 pm
by Chip
conrailmike wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 12:16 pm
AARR wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:26 am
My understanding is CN gets Flint's westbound loads at their Flint ramps.
But when I see that LSRC is handling 1,000 cars a month of GM's Flint vehicles it seems that's a lot of traffic CN is missing out on.
1,000 trucks a month is really nothing. We produce 1,000 trucks a day at Flint. Production goal is 380 per shift
What’s your jph up there? We're about 72 here.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:02 pm
by David Collins
A few very interesting developments here:
CN has replaced two crossings (the one next to Great Lakes Crossing and Collier Road) with brand-new signals.
My grandpa who lives in Lake Orion also told me that he pulled up to Joslyn and Brown Road the other day to Flashing lights and Bells. he said there was a pickup truck next to "the steel box", aka the crossing case, which means that was probably a signal maintainer.
Believe it or not, It appears that GM is putting the tracks back IN at the plant. This comes courtesy of GTW Dude and another source.
Definitely going to be keeping a very close eye on this. I'll try to see if I can get any information from a source I know over at CN.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:53 pm
by GTW Dude
David Collins wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:02 pm
A few very interesting developments here:
CN has replaced two crossings (the one next to Great Lakes Crossing and Collier Road) with brand-new signals.
My grandpa who lives in Lake Orion also told me that he pulled up to Joslyn and Brown Road the other day to Flashing lights and Bells. he said there was a pickup truck next to "the steel box", aka the crossing case, which means that was probably a signal maintainer.
Believe it or not, It appears that GM is putting the tracks back IN at the plant. This comes courtesy of GTW Dude and another source.
Definitely going to be keeping a very close eye on this. I'll try to see if I can get any information from a source I know over at CN.
Let me clarify, there has been visible work done on the tracks inside and outside the plant. I did not state the tracks are being put back in. There has been a lot more than usual action at the plant involving the side with the entrance to the rails. Definitely interesting stuff to keep an eye on.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:18 pm
by David Collins
GTW Dude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:53 pm
Let me clarify, there has been visible work done on the tracks inside and outside the plant. I did not state the tracks are being put back in. There has been a lot more than usual action at the plant involving the side with the entrance to the rails.
I accidentally left out what you said to me over the phone, my bad. The other source I mentioned has said they're putting the tracks back in.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 10:10 pm
by RoyalKingoftheRails
GTW Dude wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:53 pm
David Collins wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:02 pm
A few very interesting developments here:
CN has replaced two crossings (the one next to Great Lakes Crossing and Collier Road) with brand-new signals.
My grandpa who lives in Lake Orion also told me that he pulled up to Joslyn and Brown Road the other day to Flashing lights and Bells. he said there was a pickup truck next to "the steel box", aka the crossing case, which means that was probably a signal maintainer.
Believe it or not, It appears that GM is putting the tracks back IN at the plant. This comes courtesy of GTW Dude and another source.
Definitely going to be keeping a very close eye on this. I'll try to see if I can get any information from a source I know over at CN.
Let me clarify, there has been visible work done on the tracks inside and outside the plant. I did not state the tracks are being put back in. There has been a lot more than usual action at the plant involving the side with the entrance to the rails. Definitely interesting stuff to keep an eye on.
That's some great news! I sure hope it does come back to life. They're gonna have a lot of work on their hands to get the rails ready, cleaning up all of the weeds, making sure all crossing gates and signals work. Unpaving the roads where the tracks have been paved over. I know that Great Lakes Crossing Drive got a new signal gate put in, didn't know about Collier road. I might have to go check it out some time.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:58 pm
by Beemer
The Collier Road signals have not been replaced. I just drove by and they are the same dirty signals that have been in place. Inside the Orion plant property, the spur that runs along the North side (parallel to Siverbell Road) has been removed, as planned. This removal happened a few weeks ago.
Have a Great Day!
Beemer
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 3:28 pm
by Steve B
David Collins wrote: ↑Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:02 pm
CN has replaced two crossings (the one next to Great Lakes Crossing and Collier Road) with brand-new signals
It would help greatly if you post photo(s) of that and further developments.
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:23 am
by RoyalKingoftheRails
Beemer wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:58 pm
The Collier Road signals have not been replaced. I just drove by and they are the same dirty signals that have been in place. Inside the Orion plant property, the spur that runs along the North side (parallel to Siverbell Road) has been removed, as planned. This removal happened a few weeks ago.
Have a Great Day!
Beemer
So what exactly does that mean as far as CN doing work on the other crossings? Is there still hope for this line to make a comeback?
Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:15 pm
by Chip
I thought it was determined that as of right now the only reason CN was maintaining crossing signals was because they’re required to since the line hasn’t been formally abandoned yet.