The CCET gains more business on the Peavine

[Y@]

This thread gives me the derps.

[redside20]

I do make decisions every day where I work that affect many people. I weigh all options

god help those people.



I don't know of any monorails around here, maybe you're confusing us with Bellevue, Washington...

I think he's been drinking unfiltered water out of the Ohio River again...perhaps their going to build a monorail from Downtown Cincy to Bellevue Kentucky across the River.

[Muleskinner]

This thread gives me the derps.

They only have a single rail up there

I don't know of any monorails around here, maybe you're confusing us with Bellevue, Washington...

I do make decisions every day where I work that affect many people. I weigh all options

If that is your job..I feel really bad for all those people under you.



I don't know of any monorails around here, maybe you're confusing us with Bellevue, Washington...

I think he's been drinking unfiltered water out of the Ohio River again...perhaps their going to build a monorail from Downtown Cincy to Bellevue Kentucky across the River.

WOW! This thread has turned into nothing but drama. What is it with this forum sight? I thought this was railroadfan.com, not pick on certain people because they have a difference of opinion, sight.

[MQT1223]

I feel like Beavis and Butthead are about due for an appearance...

[cumbres]

I feel like Beavis and Butthead are about due for an appearance...

You got that right, there are a lot of "holier than thou" types on here that really need to get a clue. I`ve never seen a more callous bunch of jerks as some of these regulars are. It`s truly a shame that everyone on here is supposed to have a common interest and pleasant dialogue and you got 4-6 "know it alls" that have to spend all their waking moments looking for ways to run people down the road just to make themselves look good. The truth of the matter is that the majority of the folks like myself are just looking for general conversation and don`t give a darn about who you were, who you think you are or what railroad you supposedly work or worked for. We just want to have some dialogue not a bunch of "I know better than you because I sleep with the president of CSX, or my wife`s sister`s cousin`s best friend`s neighbor knows Wick Moorman, so you`re wrong and here`s why". comments. Get over yourselves already.

[redside20]

Drama you say..Ok the thing I keep hearing from a poster is that NS is closing rail yards left and right. One thing I Have to ask is where? So far the only yard that I know of that is supposed to be closed is a tiny little support yard near downtown Springfield Illinois. A tiny three to five track yard is being ripped and transferred to Decatur Yard so the nimbys and politicians can have their pie in the sky version of yuppieville where they can build their condos, coffeehouses, and lifestyle communities. To hell with industry and jobs we want these trains out of Springfield. Back to yard closures where else on the NS system have they been closing yards, I'd really like to know. Oh yes and then we have Buckeye Yard here in Columbus. Technically the yard isn't abandoned but NS has deemed it unworthy as a major hump classification yard in which no cars are to be classified. The tracks are still there and there are occupied by equipment in storage for the time being. And then you have the CSX intermodal terminal just adjacent to the yard which is the more active side of the yard and then a few times a week a few runthrough trains are exchanged between CSX and NS with auto and intermodal traffic. The Camp Chase picks up and sets out cars. So again where is NS closing other yards that I don't know about? If it hadn't been for CSX having their intermodal yard at Buckeye, who knows what other plans had for the yard that haven't followed through with yet. oh yes Roanoke might be another yard that has been downsized because their front offices moved to Atlanta.

[brc0227]

You can't have a difference of opinion on this site without getting chastised by the "holier than thou" regulars on here.

[Huelsy'sTrainBlog]

This thread gives me the derps.

Do you ever add anything of substance to a post?

[heypal6878]

I see my post was deleted, yet the old guys love to give it to me and they don't get deleted. Maybe I was too harsh pissed off a few people here. Oh well reason being as I was ticked off by one of the posters here.

Anyway some people here many months ago said the Peavine was on life support when if fact the CCET has brought it back to life. They have a few contracts that is making them money and if they thought the line was dead the CCET wouldn't operate the line. The paper company in Batavia and the Ag could ship orders by truck I'm sure. Yet the CCET is picking up some business on the line and keeping these two companies happy transporting their product.

I'm very positive on the Peavine and hope the CCET continues to gain business on the line. I feel one day all the nay sayers here will be eating crow when the Peavine opens the entire rail. Never say never in the rail business. NS might not run the line anymore yet the CCET may.

[alittlevanwerty]

You can't have a difference of opinion on this site without getting chastised by the "holier than thou" regulars on here.

That's why a lot of people have moved on from this page. Admin won't stop friends from treating others like crap.

[Y@]

This thread gives me the derps.

Do you ever add anything of substance to a post?

Nope.

[~Z~]

I see my post was deleted, yet the old guys love to give it to me and they don't get deleted.

I checked the logs, and no post of yours was deleted in at least the last month by any moderator.

That's why a lot of people have moved on from this page. Admin won't stop friends from treating others like crap.

Can you give some examples that I haven't done some sort of interjection on? I have added people on and off to the noobcakes group which requires a moderator to approve any posts to try to curb disrespectful actions.

The truth of the matter is that the majority of the folks like myself are just looking for general conversation and don`t give a darn about who you were, who you think you are or what railroad you supposedly work or worked for.

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. This is far more of a community in that we actually want to know more about the poster. We have twice yearly boardwide meetups, with many smaller gatherings throughout the year. Have a chat room that we get to know each other as well. If your attitude is "hey everyone, fark you all, i just want railroad information", you can feel free to leave.

[heypal6878]

"If that is your job I feel really bad for the people under you! Redside my post was under his now gone. I got attacked yet it is ok for me to get jumped on but when I strike back I get deleted. I'm not trying to attack anyone just trying to make a point. Even the Bellevue guy is on my case. Hey I don't work for a railroad but know something about them. Just asking a question or responding back then get attacked by some of you long time posters that like to bash people around. I can see why some people on this board run others away. I don't run away but I'm sure some of you would love to see me move on...

From now on I will read and not post that is if I don't get attacked. I hope to make one of your meetings.

Now as far as rail yards being closed. Yes the small rail yards that only have few rails in them have been closed or no used as often. I can see NS not wanting to use small rail yards as Bellevue is larger and more modern. Bigger is better so they say. Clare for example had over 20 rails in the yard back in the day, now maybe six at the most yet the rail going to Edwards Road is closed so really it is only a good yard for the CCET cars. These small yards are pretty much not a factor anymore.

[CSX_CO]

You can't have a difference of opinion on this site without getting chastised by the "holier than thou" regulars on here.

You can have a difference of opinion. Just expect people with another opinion to speak up. If you're entitled to your opinion, why can't someone else be entitled to theirs.

Anyway some people here many months ago said the Peavine was on life support when if fact the CCET has brought it back to life. They have a few contracts that is making them money and if they thought the line was dead the CCET wouldn't operate the line. The paper company in Batavia and the Ag could ship orders by truck I'm sure. Yet the CCET is picking up some business on the line and keeping these two companies happy transporting their product.

The line WAS on life support. NS was more than content to let it die. But that's because of the economics of their situation (higher operating costs, no federal money for a Class I to fix up such a little used line, etc). It was brought new life by the CCET. No one denied has denied that fact.

I'm very positive on the Peavine and hope the CCET continues to gain business on the line. I feel one day all the nay sayers here will be eating crow when the Peavine opens the entire rail. Never say never in the rail business. NS might not run the line anymore yet the CCET may.

And now you've lost it again. Many people on here, with connections on the railroads, backgrounds in business, etc. have attempted to give you logical reasons why the Peavine is done as a through route for the foreseeable future. Its too expensive to operate, tonnage would be restricted, requires too much work to get back into 'shape'. All the same reasons it was cut off in the first place. The situation hasn't changed. The economics haven't changed. This is all stuff that was filed by the NS with the STB, so it isn't like its not already public information. Yet you hold onto this 'hope' that there is some big ole grand plan for the line. There just isn't. It will be a shortline operation, but at least it is still in.

[redside20]

Yes the small rail yards that only have few rails in them have been closed or no used as often. I can see NS not wanting to use small rail yards

What is the name of these small NS yards? NS is losing the little Springfield yard because of nasty Illinois politics not because they don't feel like using it. You still haven't answered the question though, where are these other little yards you speak of that NS that sit unused. If there down in Cincinnati are you referring to Berry Yard or the Hyde Park Branch? Yes business had dried up on the Branch so NS pulled up the rails.

[midland sub]

The issue with you heypal is you keeping pushing the speculation here and other places about the entire line reopening. That's the issue that myself and quite a few others have questioned you about. There's only some many ways you can say the same thing but in different ways and not expect to get push back from us.

CCET is only in the position they are in because the state of Ohio and the ORDC stepped in. I don't blame for NS for losing interest in the line. The return on investment for them is very little. It's very little for anyone but a select few operators. Several other companies looked at the line but declined to even bid. Frontier and another company did submit a bid with Frontier winning the concession. A couple of things stick out with this. It's a short term lease of just three years. Hyumataki was supposed to need three day a week service and was supposedly just getting to that point. They then just added another 24 miles to Seaman for Winchester grain and the potential for 300 or more outbound loads. The Hyumataki business should equal out and become steady, the Winchester Ag business is grain and requires NS car supply and more importantly NS continued interest in it. There's potential customer from a private car company for storage and car repair. There's also a potential new customer around Alton, but they are in a very volatile market. Who knows if Evans Landscaping will move forward on using rail. All good interesting stuff and hopefully it grows.

As for CCET ever going to Portsmouth. Look there's no money in haulage traffic. NONE. ZIP. NADA. ZERO. The I&O was paid less than $200 a car to move cars from Flat Rock to Cincinnati for CN and never made a dime moving it over 300 miles. NS is the only way Plum Run to Vera will ever reopen plain and simple. Simple black and white math and facts:

"Norfolk Southern recently filed for a Discontinuance of Service Exemption for the Peavine from Winchester MP 32.83 to Plum Run MP 74.5. In their filing, they claim that Plum Run to Vera (Portsmouth) will be subject to a separate Discontinuance application in near future. The Plum Run-Vera portion of track has been out of service since 2008 and is refuted to be in worse shape than the Winchester to Plum Run section, BEFORE taking into consideration the problems with the Scioto River bridge at the Vera end. With that in mind, NS sworn testimony states that the 40.67 miles of track between Winchester and Plum Run requires $5,588,058 in IMMEDIATE track work just to get to FRA Class 1 (10 MPH) standards. They then point out that 12.5 miles of rail will need replaced in the first year just to maintain Class 1 at a cost of $4,725,120, with another $1,580,000 in bridge work needed over next few years. This budgets nothing to restore crossing protection or signaling system."

That's $12 million dollars in work NS said needs to be done for Winchester to just Plum Run. Now rule of thumb for a line to turn a profit it needs 100 car loads per mile. CCET is now running 48 miles give or take to Seaman. That's 4800 car loads a year. Now to keep the line at Class 2 25 mph you're going to spend $5500 a mile each year. That's almost $275,000 to maintain the tracks. So being a shortline and knowing most shortlines make maybe $400 to $600 on their cut of the move on average (might be slightly more or less with CCET), that means if they hit the magic 4800 carloads, $60 of the revenue per car is going to just track maintenance. The rest goes to paying crew cost, fuel, insurance and taxes. We know the CCET isn't anywhere close to moving 4800 cars. You can't realistically keep thinking or saying the CCET is going to reopen the line to Vera. The ORDC isn't going to pay to reopen Plum Run to Vera for the CCET to move haulage traffic either. The chances for the homerun customer showing up on the Peavine are slim to none. There's a lot better super sites in Ohio ready to go. Volvo looked at Jeffersonville up on the I&O before wising up and finding a site in North Carolina for their planned new assembly plant.

Just be happy with what the ORDC and CCET has accomplished so far. They still have a huge hill to climb just to maintain service on what they have now.

[brc0227]

CSX Co I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. But there are 5 or 6 on this site including you that insist on being a condescending ass every time you express that opinion. Ever heard of the word respect? Ever heard of being respectful? You all should try it sometime.

[MQT1223]

The opinion part I agree with, but this thread has gotten very ugly very fast.

I feel like these two are bound to make the curtain call very soon...

[CSX_CO]

CSX Co I have no problem with anyone expressing their opinion. But there are 5 or 6 on this site including you that insist on being a condescending ass every time you express that opinion. Ever heard of the word respect? Ever heard of being respectful? You all should try it sometime.

Respect from me is earned not given. Not many people in my life have earned it. I guess when you try and present facts and the reasons behind decisions, that makes you an ass. Well sir, I guess I am an ass.

[jallenp7]

Haulage traffic is great for rail fans but does not turn a profit for the railroad, been there and done that