Former GR H & C interurban trackage?

[GRHC]

I think that the now abandon west end of the Holland dock track in Holland Michigan that ran along Ottawa Ave. from 16th St. to just passed 24th St. was at one time the trackage of the Grand Rapids Holland and Chicago railway.
I do know that the interurban trackage followed that exact route before turning west at what is now 24th St and headed towards the lakeshore. Topographical maps from 1932 show the rail line intact from 16th St. to 24th St. which is six years after the interurban was abandoned. If anybody has any insights or thoughts on this subject they would be greatly appreciated.

Looking south between 16th St. and 17th St.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.

This nautical map from 1908 shows the Holland dock track ending at the Heinz plant. It also shows the interurban trackage which runs down 16th St. then turns south and heads down Ottawa Avenue where the Y is located.

Just past this building and the switch is where the GR H & C turned to the west then headed to the lake shore and eventually to Saugatuck Michigan.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.

[GRHC]

Here are some additional photos and observations.

This picture shows the siding going to Holland Ladder and Manufacturing which was located on the south side of 17th St. in Holland Michigan. Take notice of the ground throw for the switch in this photo and how old and light duty it is.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.

Here’s a photo from Historical Aerials from the year 1969 which clearly shows the old ROW turning to the west.

Here’s a plat map that shows the GR H & C route and ownership of the property between 23rd St. and what is now 24th St. that runs along Ottawa Avenue in Holland Michigan.

[GRHC]

The final act. Here are some photos from when the line was being scrapped.

Looking south between 21st St. and 22nd St.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.

Looking north between 18th and 17th St.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.

End of the line literally. Looking south at the point where the GR H & C line curved off and headed to the west.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.


Note: The western end of the Holland dock track was removed in August 1989 wiping out what may have been the last vestige of Grand Rapids Holland and Chicago trackage. The GR H & C was abandoned in 1926 except for a segment from the Grand Rapids city limits through Grandville to Jenison Michigan. This portion of the line was saved and operated as United Suburban Transportation and lasted until 1932.

Sidebar: when I first posted I made reference to a building I thought could be a
GR H & C freight house. Upon further research I was able to disprove my original thoughts about the origins of this building thus deleting any reference made to said building.

[DaveO]

info I have courtesy of the late Graydon Meints.
GR H & C was in the street.
PM was on the side.
So they were parallel there.
Tried Library of Congress Sanborn maps this AM but they've got site issues going on.

edit: i don't mean to say both lines existed at the same time.

[GRHC]

info I have courtesy of the late Graydon Meints.
GR H & C was in the street.
PM was on the side.
So they were parallel there.
Tried Library of Congress Sanborn maps this AM but they've got site issues going on.

Thank you Dave I appreciate the information you provided.
I’m curious as to why the nautical map and the plat map doesn’t show the Pere Marquette trackage along with the interurban trackage running down Ottawa Avenue. I do know that the Holland dock track and the interurban trackage paralleled each other in locations but not on Ottawa Avenue. So this brings up the question if the trackage paralleled on Ottawa Avenue where did the interurban cross back over the Pere Marquette trackage. Is it possible that the Pere Marquette Holland dock track was extended after the interurban trackage was removed?

Note: in researching this issue I was able to come up with the location of the GR H & C’s 16th St. turning Y which I have been trying to find for years.

[DaveO]

you need to find the book(s) Railroads of Holland Michigan.
some available to purchase online or check some libraries.

[GRHC]

you need to find the book(s) Railroads of Holland Michigan.
some available to purchase online or check some libraries.

I have already checked that out that book as well as others and it doesn’t answer this particular question.

Note: I have been interested in and have been researching this line for years I have literally traced every inch of it.

[AARR]

Thank you GRHC and DaveO, I enjoy reading about historical stuff and fossil hunting.

[DaveO]

the question is when was the pm industrial track laid?
that kind of track is minutia for many publications.
i find no reference in the books i have.
if loc sanborn maps come back online it might help somewhat with the timeframe.

[GRHC]

the question is when was the pm industrial track laid?
that kind of track is minutia for many publications.
i find no reference in the books i have.
if loc sanborn maps come back online it might help somewhat with the timeframe.

I guess my question would be when was the Holland dock track laid along Ottawa Avenue in Holland Michigan. The source you stated said that the the lines ran parallel to each other so where did they cross. In order to run parallel to each other there would’ve had to of been a crossing and I can’t find a single crossing on any maps nor can I find those two lines paralleling each other. The only maps that I see show one line or the other but not both.

Note: the earliest map that I can find that shows the Holland dock track running along Ottawa Avenue is from a 1932 topographical map. Any maps earlier than that I have found shows the line terminated at the Heinz plant and never crossing 16th St.

[DaveO]

i edited my post.
i realized i was inferring both lines existed at the same time.
that isn't what i had meant.
that they were separate right-of-ways is what my references indicate.

[GRHC]

i edited my post.
i realized i was inferring both lines existed at the same time.
that isn't what i had meant.
that they were separate right-of-ways is what my references indicate.

Thank you Dave O for clearing that up and thank you for posting in regards to this subject.

Here’s another map from 1912 that shows the line terminating at Heinz.
So again if your information is correct and they were two separate lines that means the Holland dock track was extended sometime after 1912 and possibly after 1926 when the GR H & C was abandoned and before 1929.

Update: I located a topographical map from 1929 which shows (although it is a bit difficult to see) the Holland dock track extending down Ottawa Avenue. That’s three years after the GR H & C was abandoned.

This site is a great resource for maps.
https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/histor ... ities.html

This screenshot was taken from the book The Interurban Era in Holland Michigan by Donald L. van Reken. The source of van Reken information is from the Ottawa County Times of May 1928 1897. In this text it describes what streets the GR H & C will be traveling down and as you can see from the text it does not mention Ottawa Avenue. In fact once the line turns south off of 16th St. it list individual property owners. When construction began on the line I believe that Ottawa Avenue was a platted street that had not yet been constructed or the line did not run in the street.

[Standard Railfan]

the question is when was the pm industrial track laid?
that kind of track is minutia for many publications.
i find no reference in the books i have.
if loc sanborn maps come back online it might help somewhat with the timeframe.

The LOC website will not help in your quest. The newest map on file is dated 1916 and does not depict the area in question. The Holland public library (or your local library) may have an online subscription to the newer maps which may be of help.

[GRHC]

the question is when was the pm industrial track laid?
that kind of track is minutia for many publications.
i find no reference in the books i have.
if loc sanborn maps come back online it might help somewhat with the timeframe.

The LOC website will not help in your quest. The newest map on file is dated 1916 and does not depict the area in question. The Holland public library (or your local library) may have an online subscription to the newer maps which may be of help.

I have viewed The Sanborn maps this morning. The Sanborn maps raises more questions than they answered. I wish they would’ve showed interurban trackage unfortunately they do not. Is what they did show is the area along Ottawa Avenue was basically undeveloped. However between 1908 and 1916 there was a factory built on the corner of 24th St. and Ottawa Avenue. Back then everything travel by rail was this a interurban served industry? This factory was one of the first that was rail served by western extension of the Holland dock track
So far I’ve presented a lot of circumstantial evidence to support my theory however I still have not found the smoking gun.

As you can see from this ad the Grand Rapids Holland and Chicago definitely carried freight.

[DaveO]

the question is when was the pm industrial track laid?
that kind of track is minutia for many publications.
i find no reference in the books i have.
if loc sanborn maps come back online it might help somewhat with the timeframe.

The LOC website will not help in your quest. The newest map on file is dated 1916 and does not depict the area in question. The Holland public library (or your local library) may have an online subscription to the newer maps which may be of help.

Yes, saw that late(for me) last night. There exists a map for 1925 and a 1948 update to that map.
They are copyright protected and LOC can't make them available.
Access may be available through a library subscription.

[DaveO]

There are maps showing a connection between the GR H & C and the PM.
It may be a scenario were the interurban provided freight service which maybe transitioned to the PM.
However the pictures show PM with a side of road R-O-W and printed material stating GR H & C was in the road. I accept that as fact.

[GRHC]

There are maps showing a connection between the GR H & C and the PM.
It may be a scenario were the interurban provided freight service which maybe transitioned to the PM.
However the pictures show PM with a side of road R-O-W and printed material stating GR H & C was in the road. I accept that as fact.

It would be nice if you could provide a link to that printed material. Or if you have it in front of you could you take a snapshot of the text and post it. Or perhaps it’s something that you think that you remember reading at one time somewhere someplace.

Note: The PM and the GR H & C had numerous interchange points. However the ad that I referenced is an all electric rail link from Holland to Detroit. The point I was trying to make is that The GR H & C carried freight and the W E Dunn corporation was possibly rail served by the GR H & C and if that was so they would not want that service interrupted with the abandonment of the interurban therefore that being the reason why the Pere Marquette would’ve taken over that section of line. I have presented a map that shows the Pere Marquette running to that location in 1929.

And again I point out the fact that when the interurban was built Ottawa Avenue at that point and in that location did not exist. Also the property for the line that extended south down Ottawa Avenue was purchased from the individual landowners and not leased from the city.

Throughout time theories and historical accounts have been disproven or remembered incorrectly. It was you yourself Dave O that once stated stated in the chat center that the experts aren’t always right.

[GRHC]

Here is another piece of circumstantial evidence that I think helps prove my theory.
The property that you see in the photograph below running up to the lumberyard including the woods on the right side of the picture was owned by the PM/Chessie System. (noticed the no trespassing sign in the picture) This property was also owned at one time by the GR H & C and it is at this location where the line turned to the west.

Note: it is also at this point where the Holland dock track and the GR H & C ROW are in the exact same location and that is proven by the aerial photo in the above postings and the photo below.

Tom Burke photo from Flickr.