Abandoned Rails in the Flint Area

[MQT1223]

Ok so two rail lines in question here. I grew up around both so naturally I want to know more. The first one. When your going on I-75 north, the overpass and rails were recently removed but the abandoned line has been turned into a trail. Ex CN/GT tracks for sure. When was the line last used? Tracks were severed at Linden Rd by the mall, and a small porton of the line is still used before the cut rails. A leg of the Wye that went under I-69 for this line was also removed as well. A small yard also used to exist between Corunna Rd and I-75. Rails were already removed beyond Ballenger Hwy for some time before the rest was lifted. But anyways... Where did this line go? Other former rail line is between I-75 and I-475 and a trestle for the active CN/GT line is visible from the highway. When was this line last used? What is this line's heritage and where does it go? Both of the line's in question converge near where Swartz Creek and the Flint River meet. Did they connect or cross in anyway? Any photo's of these lines when in service? Any info is appreciated.

[jimnorthwood]

I grew up in Flint, albeit I left before you were born. The line that crossed I-75 was the former GTW main that at one time passed through downtown Flint. It was severed in the middle in preparation for the construction of I-475, as well as to get the tracks out of downtown Flint. Timeframe for this severance in the middle, I'm guessing 1974, although it could have been a couple of years earlier. After the middle was pulled out switch jobs continued to serve customers on the east and west remnants. I lived within walking distance of the west, so more familiar with that. Only customer there was Chevrolet/Delphi, aka Chevy in the Hole. The last few years that track was cut back to Ballenger Hwy, and transload done out of Corunna Road Yard. When Delphi closed the rest of the line was pulled. Maybe 2000? Early on GTW built a bypass line around the south side of Flint. I don't know the year. This is the mainline today. It must have been built prior to 1947 as that is when the Van Slyke Assembly plant opened.

Re: Other former rail line is between I-75 and I-475 and a trestle for the active CN/GT line is visible from the highway.

I can't visualize this one, gone too long.

[Saturnalia]

Of course the C&O line was also re-located, the old line running both through Atwood and thru downtown. What's left is the Atwood/Maple Road yard, and the Buick City spur.

I find that one of the more interesting line relocations in Michigan, the others being downtime BC and the West Side consolidation in GR

[MQT1223]

I grew up in Flint, albeit I left before you were born. The line that crossed I-75 was the former GTW main that at one time passed through downtown Flint. It was severed in the middle in preparation for the construction of I-475, as well as to get the tracks out of downtown Flint. Timeframe for this severance in the middle, I'm guessing 1974, although it could have been a couple of years earlier. After the middle was pulled out switch jobs continued to serve customers on the east and west remnants. I lived within walking distance of the west, so more familiar with that. Only customer there was Chevrolet/Delphi, aka Chevy in the Hole. The last few years that track was cut back to Ballenger Hwy, and transload done out of Corunna Road Yard. When Delphi closed the rest of the line was pulled. Maybe 2000? Early on GTW built a bypass line around the south side of Flint. I don't know the year. This is the mainline today. It must have been built prior to 1947 as that is when the Van Slyke Assembly plant opened.

Re: Other former rail line is between I-75 and I-475 and a trestle for the active CN/GT line is visible from the highway.

I can't visualize this one, gone too long.

So that line used to be a main? Wow. The tracks that remained up to Ballenger Hwy were removed from Linden Rd. to Ballenger starting in 07. The crossings themselves removed in 09 or so along with the bridge. Do you have any clue what the line that went under the CN/GT by 475 is?

[GTW6401]

Do you have any clue what the line that went under the CN/GT by 475 is?

That is the old PM mainline through Flint. The current CSX mainline on the east side of Flint was constructed as a belt-line in the early 1920s. Passenger trains continued to serve downtown until sometime in the 1940s. This trackage was kept on either end of the city to serve customers.

[jimnorthwood]

Yes, both lines that passed through downtown Flint were the original mains. As GTW6401 noted the Flint Belt Line was opened in the 1920's as a bypass for PM. I've never been able to determine when the GTW new main in South Flint was constructed. I don't recollect there being a diamond downtown. Rather, I think the two lines merged together for a bit and then went their separate ways. The old GTW main ran through the south side of what is now the UM-F campus. The old C&O main came into downtown near where the rescue mission is now, on Grand Traverse Street.

The best source for info on both lines is a guy who posts under the name Elba Steve on the "other" board. I don't think there is anything he doesn't know about either of these lines.

[MQT1223]

Yes, both lines that passed through downtown Flint were the original mains. As GTW6401 noted the Flint Belt Line was opened in the 1920's as a bypass for PM. I've never been able to determine when the GTW new main in South Flint was constructed. I don't recollect there being a diamond downtown. Rather, I think the two lines merged together for a bit and then went their separate ways. The old GTW main ran through the south side of what is now the UM-F campus. The old C&O main came into downtown near where the rescue mission is now, on Grand Traverse Street.

The best source for info on both lines is a guy who posts under the name Elba Steve on the "other" board. I don't think there is anything he doesn't know about either of these lines.

Do you have any clue what the line that went under the CN/GT by 475 is?

That is the old PM mainline through Flint. The current CSX mainline on the east side of Flint was constructed as a belt-line in the early 1920s. Passenger trains continued to serve downtown until sometime in the 1940s. This trackage was kept on either end of the city to serve customers.

So it sounds like both lines have not served their original purpose for a long time then.

[Steve B]

As always, Jim Northwood provided good info, which I'll expand on here.

The old PM main crossed the old GTW main at a diamond downtown just east of the Flint River. There was an interchange track. There was never an interchange where the GTW bypass crossed over the old PM main.

As for the GTW:

Its bypass main opened ca. 1902 (NOT 1910 or 1928 as is repeated on various websites and in poorly-edited Morning Sun books). A 1923 decision of the Michigan Public Service Commission discusses GTW's Fenton Rd. bridge and states: "This bridge was constructed and the highway encroached upon in 1902." Also, p. 4 of the April 15, 1901 Chicago Tribune mentions GTW's double tracking plans and says, "The work will be between Port Huron and Durand, Mich., and will take in the loop around Flint, Mich." P. 145 of the 1901 Annual Report of the Illinois Society of Engineers notes, "It is probable that during 1901 about 100 miles of double tracking will be done, including a deviation of about 10 miles from the present line to avoid the heavy grades now operated through Flint."

The above sources are freely available through a Google search.

Although congestion downtown may have been one reason the line was relocated, it happened *before* the auto plant boom and the main reason was probably to bypass the steep grades. Also, clearances might have been pretty tight downtown in some spots on the old line to double-track it. 1902 was also when GTW was planning construction of a new depot downtown on the old main.

Passenger trains continued to use the old main line depot at Harrison St. and the river until 1928. In that year, a depot at 14th & Saginaw on the bypass opened, and the old depot was disassembled and moved to Muskegon. The old main was severed ca. 1960, just after Torrey Yard was built and largely replaced Belsay Yard. The city had been agitating to get trains off Saginaw St. downtown. Track was removed from the west bank of the Flint River (just east of Grand Traverse St.) to just east of Saginaw St.

On the western half, the next abandonment was from the river bank to just w. of Grand Traverse. This was done by the late '80s. At some point after 1985, the switch at "Mundy" where the bypass split from the old main was removed. Ca. 2001, from just w. of Grand Traverse to Ballenger Hwy. was torn out when Delphi West's Plant 10 began transloading gas tanks at Corunna Yard. When the plant closed a couple years later, Ballenger Hwy. to Linden Rd. was abandoned. The most recent western half abandonment has been from Mundy to the freight bypass wye (which peels of the bypass at West Flint).

There was also a wye e. of Center Rd. connecting the old main and bypass.

On the eastern half, service continued all the way to between Harrison and Saginaw until 1974 or '75, when the freight house closed and the clerks moved to Torrey. I'm guessing that at that point, it was removed to between Franklin Ave. and Vernon Ave. Definitely by 1979, that's where the track ended. It served McCloy Paper at that spot. Ca. 1987 it was ripped up to just e. of Dort Hwy., and ca. 1998 from there to just e. of the CSX beltline. IIRC, after that very briefly there was still a bit of track kept in from the CSX interchange to just e. of the diamond.

Interesting bit of trivia: there once was a piggyback loading ramp at the Burton St. Yard on the old GTW main. This was the area across the street from the current Buick Gallery of the Sloan Museum.

With regards to the PM:

The Flint Belt opened in 1922. Passenger trains used the old main until 1950 when the C&O abandoned passenger service through Flint. The PM/C&O depot was at Beach & Union Sts. A parking ramp (what else) is there now. As with the GTW, the city fathers began pushing for "urban renewal" and in Aug. or Sept. 1972, C&O ran its last train through downtown. The rails were lifted from just n. of Kearsley St. to Avon St. (near the present-day intersection of Fred Tucker Dr. and Floyd J. McCree Dr.)

On the northern half, the rails were first lifted from Avon to just s. of Wood St., sometime before 1990. The next abandonment was from there to the north side of Hamilton Ave., sometime after 1999.

On the southern half, in the mid-late '80s it was torn up from just n. of Kearsley to somewhere between Grand Traverse and Second St. Ca. 1991, it came out from there to a point between Hemphill and Bristol, apparently to allow equipment to continue to use the "Atwood Wye," itself now gone. Sometime in the last 5-6 years it was ripped out further, to the Dort Hwy. crossing. That timeframe is also likely for when it was torn out from Atwood Jct. to just N. of Maple Ave. The current connection from the bypass to Atwood Yard is a later one, a bit north of the historic Atwood Jct.

Some customers of note on the old GTW main:

GM warehouse, just e. of Center Rd. Still in use, no rail service in many years but you can see in Birds-Eye where the spur was.
AC Spark Plug. Jointly served with C&O. GTW had rights into the plants along Dort (via a connection in the NE quadrant of the diamond) and C&O had rights into the plants between Averill and Center Rd.
James Lumber, just e. of Dort.
Hall Steel just W. of Dort was probably served at some point.
Graybar Electric, on Kansas Ave.
A coal yard on Kansas, just e. of Vernon.
McCloy Paper.
Phil Flint Oil Co.
Gransden-Hall
Taystee Bread, Sears warehouse and freight house customers downtown.
Chevy in the Hole
A lumberyard between Ballenger and Corunna
The warehouse at Corunna Yard (at one point said "VENTURE" on it).
GM Service Parts facility on Bristol Rd.


I came to this discussion late, hopefully at least a couple of people will read all this!

[Steve B]

A couple more points: the C&O through downtown carried substantial traffic until the end, with a regular job from Buick to Fisher. After the line was severed in fall '72, this traffic was routed down the beltline and up around the Atwood Wye to Fisher. To get ICC approval for abandonment, C&O had to double track the beltline from the N. Kearsley diamond (R.T. Longway Blvd.) southward and upgrade the signals.

[MQT1223]

As always, Jim Northwood provided good info, which I'll expand on here.

The old PM main crossed the old GTW main at a diamond downtown just east of the Flint River. There was an interchange track. There was never an interchange where the GTW bypass crossed over the old PM main.

As for the GTW:

Its bypass main opened ca. 1902 (NOT 1910 or 1928 as is repeated on various websites and in poorly-edited Morning Sun books). A 1923 decision of the Michigan Public Service Commission discusses GTW's Fenton Rd. bridge and states: "This bridge was constructed and the highway encroached upon in 1902." Also, p. 4 of the April 15, 1901 Chicago Tribune mentions GTW's double tracking plans and says, "The work will be between Port Huron and Durand, Mich., and will take in the loop around Flint, Mich." P. 145 of the 1901 Annual Report of the Illinois Society of Engineers notes, "It is probable that during 1901 about 100 miles of double tracking will be done, including a deviation of about 10 miles from the present line to avoid the heavy grades now operated through Flint."

The above sources are freely available through a Google search.

Although congestion downtown may have been one reason the line was relocated, it happened *before* the auto plant boom and the main reason was probably to bypass the steep grades. Also, clearances might have been pretty tight downtown in some spots on the old line to double-track it. 1902 was also when GTW was planning construction of a new depot downtown on the old main.

Passenger trains continued to use the old main line depot at Harrison St. and the river until 1928. In that year, a depot at 14th & Saginaw on the bypass opened, and the old depot was disassembled and moved to Muskegon. The old main was severed ca. 1960, just after Torrey Yard was built and largely replaced Belsay Yard. The city had been agitating to get trains off Saginaw St. downtown. Track was removed from the west bank of the Flint River (just east of Grand Traverse St.) to just east of Saginaw St.

On the western half, the next abandonment was from the river bank to just w. of Grand Traverse. This was done by the late '80s. At some point after 1985, the switch at "Mundy" where the bypass split from the old main was removed. Ca. 2001, from just w. of Grand Traverse to Ballenger Hwy. was torn out when Delphi West's Plant 10 began transloading gas tanks at Corunna Yard. When the plant closed a couple years later, Ballenger Hwy. to Linden Rd. was abandoned. The most recent western half abandonment has been from Mundy to the freight bypass wye (which peels of the bypass at West Flint).

There was also a wye e. of Center Rd. connecting the old main and bypass.

On the eastern half, service continued all the way to between Harrison and Saginaw until 1974 or '75, when the freight house closed and the clerks moved to Torrey. I'm guessing that at that point, it was removed to between Franklin Ave. and Vernon Ave. Definitely by 1979, that's where the track ended. It served McCloy Paper at that spot. Ca. 1987 it was ripped up to just e. of Dort Hwy., and ca. 1998 from there to just e. of the CSX beltline. IIRC, after that very briefly there was still a bit of track kept in from the CSX interchange to just e. of the diamond.

Interesting bit of trivia: there once was a piggyback loading ramp at the Burton St. Yard on the old GTW main. This was the area across the street from the current Buick Gallery of the Sloan Museum.

With regards to the PM:

The Flint Belt opened in 1922. Passenger trains used the old main until 1950 when the C&O abandoned passenger service through Flint. The PM/C&O depot was at Beach & Union Sts. A parking ramp (what else) is there now. As with the GTW, the city fathers began pushing for "urban renewal" and in Aug. or Sept. 1972, C&O ran its last train through downtown. The rails were lifted from just n. of Kearsley St. to Avon St. (near the present-day intersection of Fred Tucker Dr. and Floyd J. McCree Dr.)

On the northern half, the rails were first lifted from Avon to just s. of Wood St., sometime before 1990. The next abandonment was from there to the north side of Hamilton Ave., sometime after 1999.

On the southern half, in the mid-late '80s it was torn up from just n. of Kearsley to somewhere between Grand Traverse and Second St. Ca. 1991, it came out from there to a point between Hemphill and Bristol, apparently to allow equipment to continue to use the "Atwood Wye," itself now gone. Sometime in the last 5-6 years it was ripped out further, to the Dort Hwy. crossing. That timeframe is also likely for when it was torn out from Atwood Jct. to just N. of Maple Ave. The current connection from the bypass to Atwood Yard is a later one, a bit north of the historic Atwood Jct.

Some customers of note on the old GTW main:

GM warehouse, just e. of Center Rd. Still in use, no rail service in many years but you can see in Birds-Eye where the spur was.
AC Spark Plug. Jointly served with C&O. GTW had rights into the plants along Dort (via a connection in the NE quadrant of the diamond) and C&O had rights into the plants between Averill and Center Rd.
James Lumber, just e. of Dort.
Hall Steel just W. of Dort was probably served at some point.
Graybar Electric, on Kansas Ave.
A coal yard on Kansas, just e. of Vernon.
McCloy Paper.
Phil Flint Oil Co.
Gransden-Hall
Taystee Bread, Sears warehouse and freight house customers downtown.
Chevy in the Hole
A lumberyard between Ballenger and Corunna
The warehouse at Corunna Yard (at one point said "VENTURE" on it).
GM Service Parts facility on Bristol Rd.


I came to this discussion late, hopefully at least a couple of people will read all this!

What a wealth of information. Thanks.

[jimnorthwood]

Great info, Steve B. Thanks for posting. I hadn't seen you on the boards for a while so I didn't know if you were still active or not. You and I should meet up sometime to discuss Flint railroading of the past. I suspect I am a bit older than you are and hence, my memories go back a bit further which unfortunately does not always translate into clearer

[CAT345C]

I grew up in Flint, albeit I left before you were born. The line that crossed I-75 was the former GTW main that at one time passed through downtown Flint. It was severed in the middle in preparation for the construction of I-475, as well as to get the tracks out of downtown Flint. Timeframe for this severance in the middle, I'm guessing 1974, although it could have been a couple of years earlier. After the middle was pulled out switch jobs continued to serve customers on the east and west remnants. I lived within walking distance of the west, so more familiar with that. Only customer there was Chevrolet/Delphi, aka Chevy in the Hole. The last few years that track was cut back to Ballenger Hwy, and transload done out of Corunna Road Yard. When Delphi closed the rest of the line was pulled. Maybe 2000? Early on GTW built a bypass line around the south side of Flint. I don't know the year. This is the mainline today. It must have been built prior to 1947 as that is when the Van Slyke Assembly plant opened.

Re: Other former rail line is between I-75 and I-475 and a trestle for the active CN/GT line is visible from the highway.

I can't visualize this one, gone too long.

Been working in the Flint area the last two weeks and was wondering about all of this. It appears the topic of 475 cutting neighbor hoods in half much like it did to the railroad has come back into conversation as MDOT gets ready to do a comprehensive rebuild of it.

[C&O Dispatcher]

I worked at Kearsley Tower off and on from 1970-1972 (before going to Carleton and eventually to Saginaw.) Here's a photo of the tower taken summer of 1970.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx84olg3cmevt ... 1.jpg?dl=0