GTW Romeo Sub Information

Any historical questions can be posted here. Answers would certainly help as well :)
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Racer
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GTW Romeo Sub Information

Unread post by Racer »

I know this has probably been discussed numerous times on here, but I thought I would bring this topic up after my outing today:

This evening I took a trip up to Romeo for their Peach Festival. Due to traffic issues, I ended up following the old Romeo Sub from Rochester Junction to downtown Romeo. I thought this area had some pretty cool scenery which bummed me out that the railroad has left this region. After exploring a bit of the area today, my questions are this:

What trains operated on the Romeo Sub in it's final years (Mainly the 90s)?
What was CN's operations after the end of the GTW?
What was their biggest customer (Was it the Ford Plant that is by M-53 and 32 Mile Road)?
What caused the line to be ripped-up? Redundant line, lost a big customer perhaps?

Also, when was the old Conrail north of Utica (Where the current line ends) ripped-up including the segment that crossed the GTW in Rochester?
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AARR
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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If I had known we could have met up some place
Chrisracer8903 wrote:What trains operated on the Romeo Sub in it's final years (Mainly the 90s)? Local ran from Pontiac to Romeo (until 1990) Washington (after 1991 to 1999) several times a week. In the late 80's there was also a Port Huron-Pontiac Turn with DT&I traffic.
What was CN's operations after the end of the GTW? ^^^
What was their biggest customer (Was it the Ford Plant that is by M-53 and 32 Mile Road)? Ford Engine never shipped a single carload by rail. Largest customer was a plastics plant at Hamlin Rd that received 3 cars a week. Prior to the Ford plant being converted from tractor production to engines (1991) Ford Tractor shipped quite a bit by rail in and out.
What caused the line to be ripped-up? Redundant line, lost a big customer perhaps? Not enough traffic to justify operations. The largest shipper, Letica Plastics (3 cars per week) was closing and moving. This left the elevator in Washington as the largest customer (60 cars a year of inbound fertilizer) and Church's Lumber in Auburn Heights (1-3 cars a month of inbound lumber) as the largest customers. There were a few other very small shippers. However, it's a longer story which I'll post later.

Also, when was the old Conrail north of Utica (Where the current line ends) ripped-up including the segment that crossed the GTW in Rochester? Somewhere between 1981-1984.
In the mid 1990-'s there was a large movement of steel pipe into the Romeo Yard (east of Ford Engine plant). CN had to get a special somethingorother to run train past Washington. Other than that there were no revenue movements past Washington after 1992 except for a few lumber deliveries to Wickes south of Romeo.

When CN announced their intent to abandon Romeo Sub two groups approached CN interested in acquiringthe line. One was Mt Clemens Trolley (I don't know their whole story). The other was a road construction group looking for a location to deliver 3500 carloads a year of limestone (from Alpena) and Romeo was under strong consideration. However, CN showed very little interest, if any, in selling and seemed very intent and getting rid of the line. The road construction company ended up using ships to bring limestone into Marysville and trucked from there.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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That's interesting that they wanted to bring in stone. I don't know how cost competitive that would be with boats, you have such a short haul and from what I can see 3 handling railroads. I would think the shortlines would have made it work but part of me thinks CN would have wanted a big chunk of the change.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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CAT345C wrote:That's interesting that they wanted to bring in stone. I don't know how cost competitive that would be with boats, you have such a short haul and from what I can see 3 handling railroads. I would think the shortlines would have made it work but part of me thinks CN would have wanted a big chunk of the change.
LSRC wasn't real interested even though the stone would have originated on their line. CMGN would have been happy to bring it down to Durand and was eager to help. CN did not want anything to do with it and instead tried to detour it to another location on the Mt. Clemens Sub but by the time they found a possible location (several weeks) the road construction company had gone to ship-truck.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

Unread post by wagnew0923 »

There was never a CN train on the line and I could hear trains coming and going at night until at least 1997-98. Granted they were one or two cars long. I missed the tractor trains.James River was probably the last revenue company on the line if not the plastic company. One time in 1996 I saw a what looked like a 60 car freight heading through while driving back from Almont. It was headed to Pontiac. Not sure what that was about but if I remember correctly it was moving pretty quick.

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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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wagnew0923 wrote:There was never a CN train on the line and I could hear trains coming and going at night until at least 1997-98. Granted they were one or two cars long. I missed the tractor trains.James River was probably the last revenue company on the line if not the plastic company. One time in 1996 I saw a what looked like a 60 car freight heading through while driving back from Almont. It was headed to Pontiac. Not sure what that was about but if I remember correctly it was moving pretty quick.
James River closed around 1997. Letica and Church's continued service until around 1999. CN ran a storage car train across the Romeo Sub around 1996.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

Unread post by wagnew0923 »

That must have been the one I saw. I was comming back from a cross country meet in Almont when I saw it. That would hav ebeen in September or October of 1996. I never did see a CN labled Loco on the line. They were always GT. Though they were always at night so I am not above missing something. That was a neat line to walk and watch. I always wished Romeo Engine would have shipped by rail.

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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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wagnew0923 wrote:I never did see a CN labled Loco on the line. They were always GT. Though they were always at night so I am not above missing something.
I don't recall when GTW was officially merged into CN. I thought it was 1995 but it may have been 1997. :? If it was 1995 then you saw a CN train led by GTW marked units but if it was later than 1996 then you in fact saw a GTW train.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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AARR wrote:
wagnew0923 wrote:I never did see a CN labled Loco on the line. They were always GT. Though they were always at night so I am not above missing something.
I don't recall when GTW was officially merged into CN. I thought it was 1995 but it may have been 1997. :? If it was 1995 then you saw a CN train led by GTW marked units but if it was later than 1996 then you in fact saw a GTW train.
IIRC the Grand Trunk Corporation still exists and owns the railroads in the United States that are in the CN sphere of influence. I believe that if you see a "CN" train anywhere in the US, it is in fact a GT train, at least it is operated on track owned by GT. I recall seeing a MOW truck near Pontiac last summer that had a CN logo with "Operated by Grand Trunk Corporation" or something of that nature.

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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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Norm

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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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AARR wrote:
wagnew0923 wrote:I never did see a CN labled Loco on the line. They were always GT. Though they were always at night so I am not above missing something.
I don't recall when GTW was officially merged into CN. I thought it was 1995 but it may have been 1997. :? If it was 1995 then you saw a CN train led by GTW marked units but if it was later than 1996 then you in fact saw a GTW train.
Bottom of this page shows CN power at 33 Mile Road in Romeo, 1996.
http://www.michiganrailroads.com/RRHX/S ... omeoMI.htm
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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West Road in Washington is getting repaved in July, 2022, and a pair of rails were removed as well as some old ties. These rails had been left in place when the Romeo Sub was torn out in the late 1990's.
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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

Unread post by Manistique »

I have walked or biked the entire former Romeo Sub and only noticed one or two remnants from the time it was a railroad track. Except for some bridges where they sometimes built a new bridge over an old railroad one but you have to lean over to see this.

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Re: GTW Romeo Sub Information

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There is a good possibility we have crossed paths on the MOT or Clinton River Trail
Manistique wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 6:16 pm
I have walked or biked the entire former Romeo Sub...
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