Carleton Yard

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chapmaja
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Carleton Yard

Unread post by chapmaja »

Looking through some of the information regarding the formation of the Penn Central I came across a diagram of Carleton from 1968. It shows the following.

Starting on the south end of the diagram, the now CSX mainline has a passing siding on each side of the main, just like it is today. On the very north end of each siding through there was a straight extention up to Monroe St. These extensions have long since been removed. I assume at one time, the location of the Carleton Hotel Saloon was a rail using customer of some sort. The spur on the west side would appear to have been to the elevator in town, of which does show on the diagram.

On the CSX line north of the diamond, things were a bit different. The crossovers north of Ash St was threre, but there was also a siding on the west side of the tracks which came off the west mainline well north of the crossover from west to east main and ended just north of Ash St. This siding looks to have been a team track of some sort, as there is still a loading ramp on this property.

The biggest changes are on the east side of the tracks. Just north of the crossover from the east to west main, and south of where the Lincoln Secondary branches off to the northeast, there was a Wye track heading to the DT&I on the NE quadrant of the diamond. This wye track connected to a siding on the north side of the DT&I mainline. The siding then almost immediately returned to the DT&I main, which was single track across the diamond. From my best guess, the wye track joined the siding just to the south of Ash St between Jones St. and Meigs St. To the east of Meigs St and running to almost Grafon Rd the DT&I had a small yard, which this diagram shows as being three additional tracks on the north side of the mainline and siding. There is a note that for DT&I trains meeting in Carleton, the NB train would need to take the siding. The side appears to have extend well north of the end of this yard, going to almost at least where Carleton Rockwood Rd turns from heading NE to head east.

On the Lincoln Secondary things are also a lot different now. After the Lincoln diverges from the now CSX line, it split into two tracks, with what also appears to be a third track out of service. Was there at one time a customer, possibly an elevator on the very south end of the Lincoln Secondary outside Carleton?

Also, did the DT&I have arches built all the way down to Carleton? Alongside the mainline there appear to be bases for what appear to be arches spaced regularly along the line.

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AARR
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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by AARR »

chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:52 pm
Also, did the DT&I have arches built all the way down to Carleton? Alongside the mainline there appear to be bases for what appear to be arches spaced regularly along the line.
I thought it was just the Dearborn Branch.
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SD80MAC
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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by SD80MAC »

The foundations were poured for the arches down through Carleton but the arches themselves were never installed from what I've read. They also had concrete signal masts there at one time, too.
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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by DaveO »

AARR wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:05 pm
chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:52 pm
Also, did the DT&I have arches built all the way down to Carleton? Alongside the mainline there appear to be bases for what appear to be arches spaced regularly along the line.
I thought it was just the Dearborn Branch.
yep, flat rock to dearborn

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by Man o' War »

Much of what you mention was well documented on film by Emery Gulash, including a train on that NE wye, the two tracks on the Lincoln Secondary, and the concrete signal mast at the diamond. Also the four tracks south of the diamond on the C&O. BTW, there is a PRR cast iron keystone whistle post that is still laying in the woods north of where the Lincoln splits off - just barely on private property. The second time that I encountered a Massasauga Rattler in Michigan was while I was "inspecting" that post. Vacated quickly, and the man that owns the property seems to be largely misanthropic...

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M.D.Bentley
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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by M.D.Bentley »

Yes, at one time there was a single home in the middle of the wye to the DT&I. Don't recall any industries that far south on the Lincoln. Long siding (by the golf course) was still in use (by the Conrail local) in the 80's. Unsure if it was an interchange point between the PRR and C&O.

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by C&O Dispatcher »

Having worked Carleton Tower 1971-1974 (and later dispatching that track from Saginaw), I can chime in on this. The C&O siding south of the tower on the west side was the "South Pass". As stated, there was a spur toward Monroe St off this siding that once served the Elevator. The siding on the east side was the "North Pass." From Romulus to Erie this used to be "current of traffic" territory with No 1 track as northward and No 2 track as southward, hence the siding designations. The short spur off the North Pass was called the Oil Track. I don't recall it being used much, except sometimes for MofW equipment. The spur off No 2 track north of the diamond was the Team Track. Over on the former PRR line, the track south of the main (or you could say east) was a passing siding. The south switch was part of the interlocking and the north switch was hand throw. Not sure about the other track you mentioned. As stated, the DT&I siding was on the north side of the DT&I main east of the tower. Timetable direction on the DT&I was N/S. The south switch of the siding was part of the interlocking. The north end was a spring switch with a dwarf signal to govern movement northward out of the siding and controlled from the small CTC panel we had in the tower that controlled from Carleton to start of double track at Huron. The wye that came off the C&O tied into the south end of the DT&I siding. As stated, next to the siding up as far as Grafton Road were three yard tracks. At least five nights a week (may have been daily--I can't recall for sure), the DT&I ran a Carleton turn out of Flat Rock with a good slug (50-80 cars) of interchange for the C&O. The 11:59 PM Monroe local ran light to Carleton to switch the yard. The Plymouth north cars were put on the north end of the North Pass, the Grand Rapids cars were put of the north end of the South Pass, and any Detroits were put on the Team Track. Appropriate northward road trains would make pick ups to handle these cars out of town. There was always a good cut of cars for Wayne. Sometimes the Monroe local handled these cars up to Wayne and brought back cars for the DT&I yard, and sometimes a job from Wayne would do the honors. Southbounds with DT&I cars would set off on the south end of the South Pass for the local to interchange into the yard. While I worked at Carleton, PC did not interchange with either the C&O or DT&I at Carleton. I do believe that pre-merger, the PRR used to do some interchange with the DT&I in and out of their yard.

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by David Collins »

C&O Dispatcher wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:53 pm
Having worked Carleton Tower 1971-1974 (and later dispatching that track from Saginaw), I can chime in on this. The C&O siding south of the tower on the west side was the "South Pass". As stated, there was a spur toward Monroe St off this siding that once served the Elevator. The siding on the east side was the "North Pass." From Romulus to Erie this used to be "current of traffic" territory with No 1 track as northward and No 2 track as southward, hence the siding designations. The short spur off the North Pass was called the Oil Track. I don't recall it being used much, except sometimes for MofW equipment. The spur off No 2 track north of the diamond was the Team Track. Over on the former PRR line, the track south of the main (or you could say east) was a passing siding. The south switch was part of the interlocking and the north switch was hand throw. Not sure about the other track you mentioned. As stated, the DT&I siding was on the north side of the DT&I main east of the tower. Timetable direction on the DT&I was N/S. The south switch of the siding was part of the interlocking. The north end was a spring switch with a dwarf signal to govern movement northward out of the siding and controlled from the small CTC panel we had in the tower that controlled from Carleton to start of double track at Huron. The wye that came off the C&O tied into the south end of the DT&I siding. As stated, next to the siding up as far as Grafton Road were three yard tracks. At least five nights a week (may have been daily--I can't recall for sure), the DT&I ran a Carleton turn out of Flat Rock with a good slug (50-80 cars) of interchange for the C&O. The 11:59 PM Monroe local ran light to Carleton to switch the yard. The Plymouth north cars were put on the north end of the North Pass, the Grand Rapids cars were put of the north end of the South Pass, and any Detroits were put on the Team Track. Appropriate northward road trains would make pick ups to handle these cars out of town. There was always a good cut of cars for Wayne. Sometimes the Monroe local handled these cars up to Wayne and brought back cars for the DT&I yard, and sometimes a job from Wayne would do the honors. Southbounds with DT&I cars would set off on the south end of the South Pass for the local to interchange into the yard. While I worked at Carleton, PC did not interchange with either the C&O or DT&I at Carleton. I do believe that pre-merger, the PRR used to do some interchange with the DT&I in and out of their yard.
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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by geeb557 »

Doug, did you ever copy & deliver Penn Central train orders in Carleton?

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by C&O Dispatcher »

geeb557 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2024 9:10 am
Doug, did you ever copy & deliver Penn Central train orders in Carleton?

Gary Betz
Ionia MI
We copied and delivered the running order for any northward trains on the Lincoln Branch: "Eng XXXX run extra Carleton to Penford." Occasionally, the PC dispatcher would issue an order establishing a temporary block station at Brownstown, or for track turned over to MOW, etc. The PC train order signal was just a metal yellow flag that hung outside the window, unlike the high mast semaphore-type we had for the C&O.

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by geeb557 »

Thanks Doug.

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by Chip »

DaveO wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:15 pm
AARR wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:05 pm
chapmaja wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2024 1:52 pm
Also, did the DT&I have arches built all the way down to Carleton? Alongside the mainline there appear to be bases for what appear to be arches spaced regularly along the line.
I thought it was just the Dearborn Branch.
yep, flat rock to dearborn
They put some foundations in for arches south of Flat Rock that are still there in some spots but the arches themselves were never built

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Re: Carleton Yard

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

The book “Trackside Around Detroit Downriver 1946-1976 with Emery Gulash” by Jerry A. Pinkepank has a great 4 page spread chronicling PRR operations to and through Carleton including the DT&I interchange there. There are also several photos of DT&I trains at Carleton Diamond although none with scenery of the wye or yard.

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