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I wanted to share my thoughts on something that's been on my mind for awhile, which is that some railfans (keyword: some) in the gen-z community have been ruining the hobby that's been known to NOT promote toxicity and hate against each other.

I should probably mention that I've made what will become lifelong friendships with railfans, and not everyone in the community that's my age (plus or minus 5 years or so) is a bad person. There are quite a few people, however, that have literally made me consider leaving the hobby, as they've done serious mental damage with things they've said.

I know several older people that have said that us gen-z's have been ruining the hobby, and have said I'm one of them. That's fair, I get it. I admit, I was a screaming and yelling foamer at one point, my opinions aren't so popular, etc. But there are some people in the community that are worse than just saying unpopular opinions.

Some people in the community have harassed, bullied, intimidated, assaulted and threatened people with death. It's gotten to the point where kids (you've heard that right, KIDS) are having the police called on them because they are BRAWLING next to the tracks. Because they disagree about what their favorite heritage units.

I've been harassed and threatened before, and I've learned to get over it. But it's really concerning that it's been happening to the worlds greatest hobby.

Instagram has also ruined the railfan community too, I use the platform to share my photos, that's it, I don't get into debates, or get into fights, all I do is post my photos, and maybe some cinematic "edits". The 12 year old screaming foamers wrote college level essays when Amtrak 184 (what used to be the Phase 4 heritage unit) got repainted into Amtrak's normal livery on their stories, and it got worse when the CP/KCS merger got approved.

One more thing, I think the advent of heritage units and steam excursions have permanently ruined railfanning, because people do some real messed up stuff to go see them. Such as trespassing in yards, driving recklessly, skipping school, lying to parents, etc. Whether I went railfanning or not before I got my license depended on my parents, and my mom never seemed to be on board with it, my dad was though, and he's taken me to some amazing places to watch trains. There are some young and immature railfans that may have parents that don't support their addiction (let's face it, it's an addiction with my generation), and I've heard in the past that kids that aren't even teenagers have threatened suicide unless their parents take them to see trains.

It's horrendous to see the community like this, and I want change, if not, my generation will probably be the end of the hobby, and I don't want to see that, at all.

The nut jobs have always been out there. We called them the lunatic fringe. When they rolled in blathering on you didn't engage in the conversation. If that didn't work you moved out of ear shot. Turn off social media. Talk to people who can carry on a decent conversation. Ignore the schmucks.

Like PatAzo said rude railfans have always been around.

There are a few of us old-timers who remember the days when you could sign a Waiver at the yard office and walk on railroad property as long as you didn't cross the tracks or go on the equipment. Unfortunately, ignorant railfans who didn't follow instructions ruined it for the rest of us and that includes future railfans.

PatAzo wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:15 pm

The nut jobs have always been out there. We called them the lunatic fringe.

AARR wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:35 pm

and walk on railroad property as long as you didn't cross the tracks or go on the equipment. Unfortunately, ignorant railfans who didn't follow instructions ruined it for the rest of us

In the 80's I used to go over to the GTW shop in Battle Creek on weekend nights when the sky was clear. I'd shoot black and white of the locomotives on the service track or waiting to go into the shop. You stayed off the track and no one said anything. One night a guy came over to tell me a chop nose GP9 rebuild had just come out of the shop. He was proud of it and walked me across the tracks to make sure I shot it.

Then one day the GTW police rolled up. He was polite but firm, stay off the property. He said there had been a couple incidents in Pontiac with people walking into the yard tracks while an engine was working and moving a parked locomotive to get a better shot. They had instructions to crack down.

I heard about that incident too, PatAzo. That was the end of GTW allowing us railfans on their property.

PatAzo wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 5:36 pm

He said there had been a couple incidents in Pontiac with people walking into the yard tracks while an engine was working and moving a parked locomotive to get a better shot. They had instructions to crack down.

David Collins wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 10:00 am

Social media has also ruined the railfan community too, I use the platform to share my photos, that's it, I don't get into debates, or get into fights, all I do is post my photos, and maybe some cinematic "edits".

Fixed it for you. It's not just Instagram. Avoid the gossip sites and at the very least stick to Flickr for your photos. No bull there.

It's horrendous to see the community like this, and I want change, if not, my generation will probably be the end of the hobby, and I don't want to see that, at all.
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Kids being Kids. With life experience and or wisdom from the right influencers will one day grow out of it. Some sooner than others. No piece of paper or certificate from a high school or college will automatically make behavior changes.

When your young, railfanning and meeting up with a group of multigeneral, people whether locally, regionally, or nationally can be fun, with personal experiences to last a lifetime. When I first started out as a child/teenager by myself in someones backyard right there in Bellevue Ohio...Then when I got my license i started to move around and then met other railfans...The ones at that time that were my age or around it ,especially when i started going to Deshler or here when i met zack and the gang here on rrfan. I revered in the excitement of being around people, hamming it up , goofing off, and train camraderie. You start to get to know people in person and some even form long lasting lifelong friendships as you spend time with them out railfanning and doing other things together. Sooner or later as you get older you have other commitments or personal relationships that require your attention. some get burned out by either online politics or you get annoyed by one or a group of people for whatever reason, I dont blame most people for railfanning by themselves and keeping their distance as like most other hobbies with groups of people involved your gonna have infighting over the silliest little things and people get fed up with the power struggle and leave..Weve all met them, the one person nobody wants to be around that talks way much or knows more about stuff that anybody else ever.

My other thought is as you describe insults, bullying, threats and assaults, it is a behavior not unique to Gen-Z or railfanning. Look at the general behavior in society young and old. Increasingly confrontational and lacking in simple courtesy.

PatAzo wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:11 am

My other thought is as you describe insults, bullying, threats and assaults, it is a behavior not unique to Gen-Z or railfanning. Look at the general behavior in society young and old. Increasingly confrontational and lacking in simple courtesy.

I see your point, but it seems like it's more common in railfanning then it is...say...in my old high school, and I had my fair share of harassment there.

One thing you have to remember is most Railfans are on the spectrum. With that in mind, their behavior makes more sense. There are so many that have to be the first to know something, have to have their info 100% accurate every single time, get angry if they miss something rare going by etc etc. Also, everything to do with Railfanning is a whoever can out one-up everyone else.

This is why I go out alone. Even as a millennial I've discovered people my age being exceptionally stupid near the rails.

I even have a story when I was watching Amtrak enter Grand Rapids one night.

Had a couple railfan guys which no doubt were Gen Z get called out by Amtrak. I was up on a hill near the station and these guys walked up to the station right next to the tracks. Heard the conductor call out to the engineer "take it slow, got ourselves two foamers not giving a care to the world",. I of course laughed that these young guys got called out by the crew. What amazed me most is once the locomotive was stopped they walked right up to it and started touching a fiddling with something near the door.

They ended up following me to wealthy st. One of the kids pulled out his camera to start taking photos. He had his cameras flash on and of course it flashed just as the loco was coming across the crossing. I could imagine that engineer was mad that happened.

It just astonishes me the amount of disrespect some people have.

Don't get me wrong I've even seen people much older then me act like morons.

MikeB89 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:40 pm

They ended up following me to wealthy st. One of the kids pulled out his camera to start taking photos. He had his cameras flash on and of course it flashed just as the loco was coming across the crossing. I could imagine that engineer was mad that happened.

Was it the on-camera flash or a speedlite?

J T wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:42 pm

MikeB89 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:40 pm

They ended up following me to wealthy st. One of the kids pulled out his camera to start taking photos. He had his cameras flash on and of course it flashed just as the loco was coming across the crossing. I could imagine that engineer was mad that happened.

Was it the on-camera flash or a speedlite?

Uhhhhh I'm not 100% sure but I do believe is was an external flash. Regardless rather its external or internal flash shouldn't be using them directly at an engine coming directly at you in the middle of the night.

MikeB89 wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 29, 2023 4:39 am

J T wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 26, 2023 12:42 pm

MikeB89 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 24, 2023 11:40 pm

They ended up following me to wealthy st. One of the kids pulled out his camera to start taking photos. He had his cameras flash on and of course it flashed just as the loco was coming across the crossing. I could imagine that engineer was mad that happened.

Was it the on-camera flash or a speedlite?

Uhhhhh I'm not 100% sure but I do believe is was an external flash. Regardless rather its external or internal flash shouldn't be using them directly at an engine coming directly at you in the middle of the night.

Actually, it would matter. A pop-up, on-camera flash is only a fraction of the brightness of a speedlite-type of flash. Also, what kind of angle did the photographer have to the train? Was he perpendicular to it or head on? Somewhere in between?

While I do not doubt that the new generation has...issues..and lots of them..

Lets not forget about all the shady stuff that boomers did back in the day, especially when it came to theft..

12Bridge wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:51 pm

While I do not doubt that the new generation has...issues..and lots of them..

Lets not forget about all the shady stuff that boomers did back in the day, especially when it came to theft..

So, Gen X'ers are safe? Good to know!

J T wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 31, 2023 4:22 pm

12Bridge wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 31, 2023 12:51 pm

While I do not doubt that the new generation has...issues..and lots of them..

Lets not forget about all the shady stuff that boomers did back in the day, especially when it came to theft..

So, Gen X'ers are safe? Good to know!

Yep, we're too cynical and disaffected to act up around the tracks.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:28 am

One thing you have to remember is most Railfans are on the spectrum.

Are you on the spectrum, SD80MAC? Most (but not all) of the people I've met here have been normal, well adjusted individuals. Those who aren't either don't stick around very long (or get ban hammered) or mature to the point where they interact well with the rest of the group.


It's not like that on most other platforms, where the temper tantrums, know-it-alls and overtly aggressive crowd have sucked most of the fun out of the hobby. You can't post much in certain forums, especially in "social" media without someone else coming along who knows everything about the shot, the train and the location, whether you put it in the caption or not...or someone whining about there not being enough information in the photo.

David, for a long time I've heard people say that they take pictures/video for themselves, not for anyone else. That's really the key to the entire hobby. You need to do it because you get something out of it, not for anyone else. Some of the best photos I've seen were taken by people who wanted a personal record of a locomotive, train or scene, not by a photographer for publication. If you're not having fun, why bother?

Personally, I've found that there's far less drama in model railroading than in general railfanning and especially than in preservation, but that's because our local group is pretty drama-free...and we've taken steps to keep it that way. My parents prefer to see me doing stuff with the model railroad club than with the historical group because the group dynamics with the historical stuff make it more frustrating/stressful than fun. Stressful to the point that I (and several others on this board) lost a close friend earlier this week because of the stress that came with some of his historical preservation activities had put such a strain on his physical body that (we think) his heart finally gave out. Yes, he probably made a difference in some way in preservation, but I'd trade that reefer he moved across the state a few years ago to have him around again in a heartbeat.

My point is - if you want to enjoy the hobby, do it because you enjoy it. You don't have to share every single thing you see with everyone else, and there will probably come a time when you see something that you won't be able to post about on the internet. If you're doing it because you enjoy it, you'll be able to savor the things you can't share much more. It helps having friends with the same interests, but don't do it because your friends like trains. Do it because you like trains.

And come to the meet in Durand. You can't find a better group of railfan friends than some of the people on this site.

GreatLakesRailfan wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:45 am

David, for a long time I've heard people say that they take pictures/video for themselves, not for anyone else. That's really the key to the entire hobby. You need to do it because you get something out of it, not for anyone else. Some of the best photos I've seen were taken by people who wanted a personal record of a locomotive, train or scene, not by a photographer for publication. If you're not having fun, why bother?

And come to the meet in Durand. You can't find a better group of railfan friends than some of the people on this site.

It's interesting that you say that, I posted something yesterday on my YouTube community because I had someone (a member on this site, not naming names) accuse me of posting videos/photos for likes, subscribers, follows, etc. I'm not in it for ANY of that, I'm in it to show my work with the world. Likes are earned, NOT guaranteed. This person clearly had the mindset that they're guaranteed and didn't care about his work.

I've gotten a lot of things out of rail photography, I learned how to shoot full manual, new angles, techniques, etc by shooting trains, which I can also apply to other modes of photography.

Regarding the meet, I was at the Deshler meet only for a day, I'm kicking myself that I didn't do the overnight there, I had that much fun. I didn't stay long enough to meet everyone, but I did meet you, Zack and others and felt welcomed. I'm definitely going to be at Durand this year, trying to end my gap year with a bang alongside my other trips.