Train Crew Antics "vs" Railfans

[Saturnalia]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation- ... etter.aspx

Interesting read, plus add in the whole "open door policy" of last summer. What do you guys think?

IMHO, I don't think antics like this are worth a "letter" to the railroad. That's just silly and doesn't help railroad to railfan relations. I think perhaps that sometimes railfans should just learn to deal with it. I mean, getting upset with a crew member turning off the ditch lights? Granted, I shoot video.

Also, wondering the implications of some of these actions, such as standing on the front porch while going over active grade crossings, crossing roads at greater than 20 without ditch lights, etc. Obviously leaving the door open might be annoying, but at least on standard cabs shouldn't bother railfans that much (at that point, you're being a perfectionist).

Perhaps the thing I take away from it is to deal with things that don't work out. I've never really had any crews "sabotage" my shots. I think some railfans need to just accept failed frames as part of the hobby. I certainly have ruined whole volumes of videos with my own actions, let alone the stuff I've missed for dumb routing and spacing decisions--not reckless driving, but missing the shot by not getting far enough ahead of them before attempting the next shot and not having enough time to get ready!

Anyways...let the discussion begin...

[Mr. Tops]

I will preface this by saying everyone is responsible for their own actions. I'm not saying what that conductor did was right or wrong from a professional standpoint. Sure, there are things he could get his wrist slapped for. What makes my pot boil over is the fact that these stupid old foamtards would get their thongs jerked so far up their cracks that they'd turn this guy in. I don't care that they drove 200 miles, blah blah blah, he wrecked every picture, blah blah blah. They just wanted to have fun and pursue their hobby. Well, maybe this conductor was just looking for some fun and games as well? Do you think every railroader likes having their photo taken, again and again and again by the railroad paparazzi? This one could fall either way; but where the line is drawn is, while these sorry excuses for grown men were pursuing their HOBBY, they lost sight by writing a letter to the carrier, incriminating this conductor, not realizing they are taking someone's JOB and livelihood in their own hands simply because they didn't get their god forsaken, prized photograph. If they'd driven 200 miles and it started raining, would they have written a letter to mother nature? If they were pulled over for driving 90mph and missed their shot, would they write a letter to the State Police? How would you feel if someone set up a lawn chair outside your office window and documented everything you did and when you closed the blinds on them, they take offense and march straight into your bosses office with the evidence; Thomas was leaning back in his chair in this picture and doesn't look very professional. Foamtards like this give a bad name to the rest of us, and a bad rep with railroaders. They think they are invincible, big brother, vigilante, Chuck Norris railfan gods. If he sees this letter, maybe he'll contact my carrier and let them know I hurt his feelings!

[SousaKerry]

I can see both sides of the argument, but yeah writing a letter to get the guy fired or in trouble usually never works out well for either party. Now if the crew member is truly doing something unsafe and against the rules or defacing company property and image that is totally different.

Wasn't there an incident at Deshler a few years ago with a crew member holding up a sign and mooning the fans?

[Ypsi]

All I can say is get over yourself.. Really the fact he was "outraged over his photo being 'ruined'" is laughable. Get over yourself and deal with it. I don't care if you drive thousands of miles to see a train that reaction and sense of entitlement for something thag DOES NOT MATTER is ridiculous. Your hobby doesn't matter to him or the railroad, and the fact that you were angry enough to act on a stupid photo is dumb. The sense of entitlement in the world sucks, and people can suck.. (Not saying they aren't good people in the world but come on...) great way to piss of the railroaders and railroads and make the fans look stupider then they already think they are.

[DelayInBlock]

Let the train crews do their work without acting like a pompous wannabe. That stupid incident last year occurred because of a ignorant and unnamed female individual who believed the train crew was out to get revenge on her. You do not, under any circumstances, call in and complain about how railroad employees are doing their job, UNLESS it infringes on the safety of the crew or other individuals around the railroad. If a crew was doing something that could get themselves killed or someone else nearby, that would be a different story.

However, we are talking about the composition of PICTURES! I have never understood why railfans don't like it when the doors on the locomotives are open, or when certain things (or people) get in the frame. Personally, I find it interesting when the crew members climb out and wave. Shoot, even open doors make for a more interesting picture to me. If anything, it ADDS to the scene. And Alex, even with the ditch lights off, if you're shooting video, it doesn't matter much because the train is moving...ie...in video, there's a lot more to see. With a picture, it's a lot harder to control the elements around you. All be it, one can always use Photoshop to fix small errors, but for the most part, EVERYTHING must be perfect in the moment.

I can tell you first hand, I am no rail photographer. I leave that to the professionals (like JT, Y@, and MagnumForce). There's so much that one must get right in order to take a perfect picture. Everyone always whines about railpictures, but they're not the number one railroad media site because they accept everyone's pictures. I've only had one photo accepted on that site and to be honest, in comparison to what else is on there, I don't know how it made it. With video, we can "tweak" things. Video does have its challenges, but for the most part, I'd argue that stills are more challenging to take.

That being said, yes, certain things in my still photo would make me upset. BUT, as long as the crew are doing their jobs, why create a bunch of headaches for the employees, the unions, and the railroads themselves, all because a whiny foamer doesn't like a crew member having a little fun with them? There are some railroaders who like railfans, are closet foamers, and understand what makes a good picture. But others, simply just don't get it. I hate to break it to you, but not everyone likes our hobby (with the majority of railroaders in that mix). Crying about stupid stuff like this will only make the situation worse and not only that, those railroaders (who are involved in the incident) now have an opinion that ALL railfans, based off of a stereotype, are ignorant, pompous pricks who are trying to get them fired. Tell me how that makes the situation any better?

Fighting fire with fire is not always the best solution.

[SousaKerry]

Well said Drayton I also enjoy open doors and occasional people in the picture as it adds a human element to the mechanical subject.

[Saturnalia]

And Alex, even with the ditch lights off, if you're shooting video, it doesn't matter much because the train is moving...ie...in video, there's a lot more to see

That's what I said...I'm not sure of the implications of them being out, but I shoot video (as in I don't care)

I like catching trains with the door open in summer, especially shortlines. Gives that sense that it must be warm, and they want the AC!!!

[AARR]

Perhaps I shouldn't be but I am stunned that a railfan wrote a letter to the railroad complaining about the crew ruining their picture. The railfan who wrote the letter may be a great guy who will give you the shirt off his back but I believe on this matter he is wrong. Next thing you know railfans will write complaining about how the railroads align their engines, the speeds they travel, which trains should get priority for better sun angles, etc.

[J T]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation- ... etter.aspx

Wow, I don't know if what I just read is satire, or what, but railroad employees owe railfans NOTHING.

End of story.

[Mr. Tops]

As I think more about this, I believe what amazes me the most is that even after writing a letter to the sup of the carrier, he then writes an article about it in Trains Magazine boasting about it like he's some stoic railfan hero that has done foamers proud from coast to coast. Evidently, he didn't realize the size of the neon moron sign above his head.

[DelayInBlock]

http://cs.trains.com/trn/b/observation- ... etter.aspx

Wow, I don't know if what I just read is satire, or what, but railroad employees owe railfans NOTHING.

End of story.

Amen, brotha.

[DelayInBlock]

As I think more about this, I believe what amazes me the most is that even after writing a letter to the sup of the carrier, he then writes an article about it in Trains Magazine boasting about it like he's some stoic railfan hero that has done foamers proud from coast to coast. Evidently, he didn't realize the size of the neon moron sign above his head.

What is even more depressing are the comments on the article, with many railfans supporting the nutcase.

[Norm]

I'm 100% with Mr. Tops on this. Mind your manners, take your photos and go home. Delete the ones you don't like. Doing anything that antagonizes your subject is not doing you or other railfans any favors.

[M.D.Bentley]

IT'S A HOBBY ! Deal with the ups and downs. How many "perfect" shots have been ruined because someone stepped in front of the camera or talked while the video camera was running. DID YA GO AFTER THEM ! Hell no. Suck it up and move on. There's almost always a next time. NOW, if you mess with my career ( I don't care who you are ) I'am coming after you. End of story.

[GreatLakesRailfan]

...railroad employees owe railfans NOTHING.

+1

I take it the article in question isn't lined up for the April issue, is it?

[DT&I]

The guy who wrote the article is just being a butthurt foamer douche, way to take things way too seriously, take a lap bud.

[hoborich]

Is that letter actually in Trains mag? Or is that some kind of forum. Why would Trains mag publish that kind of inflammatory crap? From the header, it appears to be a page from the mag, but maybe not.

[Saturnalia]

Is that letter actually in Trains mag? Or is that some kind of forum. Why would Trains mag publish that kind of inflammatory crap? From the header, it appears to be a page from the mag, but maybe not.

It is a blog on the magazine...their online section. I'll reserve judgement of the editorial team...it isn't my place to call them out.

I'm personally awaiting a follow-up from this railfan. I do not lose respect for one over a single incident. While I acknowledge and have said he shouldn't have written and sent the letter, he did ask for what we, the railfan community thought. If he comes out and acknowledges his mistake, IMHO he will gain any credibility he may have lost.

[Norm]

As of this morning he's still defending his actions.

[Ypsi]

This guy is a tool..

I don't feel entitled to anything - except not being harassed by the crews

from eariler

would open the front door and stand out on the front of the engine and wave at us

So he calls getting waved at being harassed...

Harassment- aggressive pressure or intimidation

Doesn't sound like waving is a form of harassment to me.. It's amazing that the railroad even gave him the satisfaction of responding to his letter..... and while I'm at it a pet peeve of mine is saying something like "I don't feel entitled to anything" and then saying something you're "entitled to".. really? your a grown man taking a picture of a train. grow a pair and move on.