White Cloud question

[David Collins]

Asking for my girlfriend who wants to know, but at it’s peak, how many trains would pass White Cloud a day? It’s obviously down to only a few trains a week, but given that the line ran (and still does run) to Grand Rapids, Baldwin and locations north of there (obviously abandoned), it had to have been somewhat busy.

[C&O Dispatcher]

Maybe not the high point, but in the 1960’s to 1980’s you had the GR-Traverse City pair 145/146. Later cut back to Manistee. You had the GR-Saginaw pair 238/239 which later became ML18/MP17 and the passenger train pair 25/26 GR-Petoskey. The psgr service ended in 1966 I believe. All those trains also ran over some portion of our Ludington Sub. There was also the Dow Special on Sundays and the empties back on Thursday. I also recall the occasional GR-Baldwin turn when needed. Not sure what they ran in PM days.

[Plannerdad]

In the 60s I think there was a local also, which I recall switching the Sparta Foundry, unless it was one of the aforementioned manifest freights. 1966, the passenger service went to Traverse City only, maybe after the mail contract ended. I road it once to TC with my brother and Grandmother, and couple times GR to Sparta.

[GP30M4216]

Thanks to the Clarke Library at CMU, a significant chunk of the Lake County Star has been digitized and is searchable online, including 1966, when passenger trains 25/26 did indeed run for the last time. Here’s a screenshot of the photo that accompanies the article:

[Doktor No]

The North Local was running five days a week when I started in 78. Cough it many times, and a nice run. We almost always turned at White Cloud, last regular customer was the refractory brick maker on the south edge of town. Ran around everything in White Cloud pass. Some days we went all the way to Baldwin to pick up leftovers off the Ludington Sub. We switched in Sparta, almost always in Grant with onions and carrots going in or out, depending on o the time of year. Every now and again at Kent City for Motts. There used to be a White House Vingar car spotted at the fruit exchange spot too IIRC. Dark green insulated box. Even had a car for Bailey at the fruit place there too. Not much service to be had up there anymore.

[C&O Dispatcher]

As I recall, ML18 and MP17 usually met at White Cloud. MP17 usually met #145 at either Kopje or Baldwin. #145 and #146 almost always met at Walhalla. There was an operator on duty at Baldwin on the night shift who gave us all the "dope" on the trains out of GR and Manistee for our train sheet and usually told us where the meets were set up south of Baldwin to keep us advised.

[Plannerdad]

I was only an observer in Sparta at my Grandmother’s across the street from the tracks in the 60’s and early 70’s. Always liked the local because it would hang around Sparta working for a couple hours. More trains on that line then, than on the GR-Detroit line now!

[GP30M4216]

David I’m not sure how far back into history you are looking, but as you may know, White Cloud was once a junction town where the Grand Rapids-Traverse City line (today the MQT) crossed the Muskegon-Big Rapids line. White Cloud East was abandoned fairly early, and I’m not sure when exactly the White Cloud- Muskegon section was trimmed back to Fremont. I gotta imagine when the depot and junction were operating White Cloud was a fairly busy place with trains going in all directions, connecting timber operations to the north with shipping and manufacturing to the south. I’m sure it was more than the 6 or 8 trains a day of the Chessie era, at least (which are interesting to learn about in their own account through the first person accounts shared here!)

[Doktor No]

White Cloud to Big Rapids...and beyond went with the depression. Fremont to White Cloud showed up on C&O maps till the very early sixties but I assume was out of service from Fremont to White Cloud. A couple of bridges had problems or so I had been told. At one time Chessie was thinking about running coal trains to Muskegon by re-opening the Fremont segment. Nothing beyond the study ever came of it though.

[David Collins]

There was also the Dow Special on Sundays and the empties back on Thursday. I also recall the occasional GR-Baldwin turn when needed. Not sure what they ran in PM days.

I heard about this train brought up by some people that live up that way. Where did it run to?

[SD80MAC]

The Bomb train ran from Midland to Dow's large plant somewhere in Texas.

[C&O Dispatcher]

There was also the Dow Special on Sundays and the empties back on Thursday. I also recall the occasional GR-Baldwin turn when needed. Not sure what they ran in PM days.

I heard about this train brought up by some people that live up that way. Where did it run to?

It came up to Chicago from Freeport, TX over the UPRR (formerly MP). Not sure of the interchange point in Chicago. They put Chessie power on it for the trip to GR and then another crew GR to Saginaw. We called it the "Bomb Train", but management frowned on that name! Usually showed up at Baldwin on Sunday evenings with around 80 loads to set out at Dean Yard (Midland) and then lite power into Saginaw. On Thursday afternoons, we called lite power out of Saginaw to pick up the empties at Dean for reverse routing back toward Chicago. We were always relieved when the loaded train made it safely to Midland!

[AARR]

About 30 cars a week (three blocks of 10 cars) of whatever that chemical was still being delivered via UP-CN-CMGN in the 90's. I don't know if it still is or not.

There was also the Dow Special on Sundays and the empties back on Thursday. I also recall the occasional GR-Baldwin turn when needed. Not sure what they ran in PM days.

I heard about this train brought up by some people that live up that way. Where did it run to?

It came up to Chicago from Freeport, TX over the UPRR (formerly MP). Not sure of the interchange point in Chicago. They put Chessie power on it for the trip to GR and then another crew GR to Saginaw. We called it the "Bomb Train", but management frowned on that name! Usually showed up at Baldwin on Sunday evenings with around 80 loads to set out at Dean Yard (Midland) and then lite power into Saginaw. On Thursday afternoons, we called lite power out of Saginaw to pick up the empties at Dean for reverse routing back toward Chicago. We were always relieved when the loaded train made it safely to Midland!

[C&O Dispatcher]

About 30 cars a week (three blocks of 10 cars) of whatever that chemical was still being delivered via UP-CN-CMGN in the 90's. I don't know if it still is or not.

I heard about this train brought up by some people that live up that way. Where did it run to?

It came up to Chicago from Freeport, TX over the UPRR (formerly MP). Not sure of the interchange point in Chicago. They put Chessie power on it for the trip to GR and then another crew GR to Saginaw. We called it the "Bomb Train", but management frowned on that name! Usually showed up at Baldwin on Sunday evenings with around 80 loads to set out at Dean Yard (Midland) and then lite power into Saginaw. On Thursday afternoons, we called lite power out of Saginaw to pick up the empties at Dean for reverse routing back toward Chicago. We were always relieved when the loaded train made it safely to Midland!

I think the official nomenclature on the waybill was "Nasty Stuff."

[David Collins]

David I’m not sure how far back into history you are looking, but as you may know, White Cloud was once a junction town where the Grand Rapids-Traverse City line (today the MQT) crossed the Muskegon-Big Rapids line.

Wow. This I did not know. Would you happen to know where this junction would’ve been in the town? When I first went to White Cloud, I remember seeing some rails being exposed over the road (the name of the road escaped both me and Katie’s minds).

[C&O Dispatcher]

This may help:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC5 ... the-mbr-co

[David Collins]

This may help:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC5 ... the-mbr-co

Would it be possible to have someone here sketch on a present day satellite image roughly where all of that would’ve been?

Fascinating map though for sure.

[Jim_c]

This may help:

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC5 ... the-mbr-co

Would it be possible to have someone here sketch on a present day satellite image roughly where all of that would’ve been?

Fascinating map though for sure.

I'm not quite that talented, to sketch it out. The street names are the same, the MQT runs on the same north - south track. The satellite imagery still pretty clearly shows the rail bed that went to Fremont. try this map as well, zoom in on White Cloud. https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/ov ... 00_geo.jpg

[Standard Railfan]

Here is a link to an 1880 map of White Cloud. Interesting track layout.

https://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/U ... /Michigan/

https://www.historicmapworks.com/Map/U ... /Michigan/