UP Mines Question

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chapmaja
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UP Mines Question

Unread post by chapmaja »

I was just looking at some stuff related to the mines in the UP.

From what I read, the Eagle Mine was estimated to only run until 2023. What is the status of this mine and how much is still available to be processed from this mine? How many carloads of product does this mine produce on a weekly basis.

Also, there is a report from a local news paper that the Copperwood Mine Project has received permits to begin construction near Wakefield. How would the construction and operation of this mine impact railroad traffic. It doesn't appear that Wakefield has railroad service. The closest line however is not far north of Wakefield and is the old CN line to White Pine, which is still out of service, but intact.

Would this project get rail service, or did I recall correctly reading all products from the mine would be trucked to Wisconsin?

Reading further, there is also talk of reopening the White Pine mine, a portion of the lode which was not previously mined. Since this area does appear rail served, would this result in a resumption of rail service to White Pine, and if so, who would the operator be? The line was owned by CN, but I don't know if it still is?

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Standard Railfan
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Standard Railfan »

The Eagle Mine was expected to have a 20 year life when opened. Additional exploration identified another ore body nearby and Lundin has constructed a stope extending to the new ore body. I believe the new development is expected to add another 10 years of life to the mine. Lundin currently states the mine will produce through 2027.

Mining companies normally provide conservative estimates of reserves. Conservative estimates limit stockholder shock if the mine life is shorter than the public estimates indicate.

I have not checked recently but I recall 6-8 carloads of concentrate were being shipped from the Humboldt mill per day.

The last time I reviewed the Copperwood project the plan was to truck the ore to Humboldt. Current production estimates indicate 6600 tonnes of ore per day. Life expectancy is 10.7 years.

The has been public discussion of restarting the smelter at White Pine.

Eagle Mine web site. https://www.eaglemine.com/operations

Highland Copper (Copperwood) web site https://www.highlandcopper.com/copperwood-project

Link to Michigan DEGLE air permit application. Lots of “interesting “ stuff. Site plans are included on pp. 54-55. No planned rail access to the site.
https://www.michigan.gov/egle/-/media/ ... 357CC0408B

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AARR
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by AARR »

I’m told they ship a 12-24 car block three times a week. Corrections are welcomed.
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by bctrainfan »

I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Steve B »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm
bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
So why doesn't CN just file for abandonment if it's too far gone?

chapmaja
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by chapmaja »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm
bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
Just wondering when you toured the tracks to make that determination?

Tim
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Tim »

I've seen the gons in trains in Green Bay and Lansing, MI. Seems like the long way around to get to Sudbury.
How many of the gons are there?

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AARR
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by AARR »

It seems that the covered gondolas also go east across the U.P.
Tim wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:47 am
I've seen the gons in trains in Green Bay and Lansing, MI. Seems like the long way around to get to Sudbury.
How many of the gons are there?
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Jim_c
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Jim_c »

Steve B wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:02 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm
bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
So why doesn't CN just file for abandonment if it's too far gone?
Doesn't Watco own that now?
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NS3322
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by NS3322 »

Jim_c wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:18 am
Steve B wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:02 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm


There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
So why doesn't CN just file for abandonment if it's too far gone?
Doesn't Watco own that now?
Yep! I believe it falls under both FOXY and GDLK, but Watco is inconsistent on their website.
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Jim_c
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Jim_c »

NS3322 wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 2:13 pm
Jim_c wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 11:18 am
Steve B wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:02 pm


So why doesn't CN just file for abandonment if it's too far gone?
Doesn't Watco own that now?
Yep! I believe it falls under both FOXY and GDLK, but Watco is inconsistent on their website.
Image
IRC all the Wisconsin lines were FOXY and Michigan lines GDLK, including the Michigan portion of the branch to White Pine.
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Saturnalia
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Saturnalia »

AARR wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:53 am
It seems that the covered gondolas also go east across the U.P.
Tim wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:47 am
I've seen the gons in trains in Green Bay and Lansing, MI. Seems like the long way around to get to Sudbury.
How many of the gons are there?
Nickel and Copper gons for Sudbury go east via the Sault

Meanwhile, the gons going towards Ontario and Quebec, mostly for export, go via the Grand Trunk.
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LansingRailFan
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

chapmaja wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:34 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm
bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
Just wondering when you toured the tracks to make that determination?
It’s been very well documented about the damage to the White Pine Sub. I suggest you look thru the Railroads of the Lake Superior Region Facebook group for many posts with photographic evidence about this.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

Steve B wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 8:02 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 6:08 pm
bctrainfan wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2023 5:43 pm
I was just in the UP camping and noted that the CN line to White Pine is overgrown but seems mostly intact other than being cut or paved over at some road crossings. Plans of reopening mine operations at White Pine seem to be moving forward, but I haven't seen anything specific about possible rail service.

https://www.radioresultsnetwork.com/202 ... hite-pine/
There’s washouts and sections of bridges missing. There’s no way that track is being reopened as it is too far destroyed.
So why doesn't CN just file for abandonment if it's too far gone?
It was easier to include it as part of the sale to Watco. It’s off their books and they didn’t have to file for Abandonement and don’t have to pay taxes on it no mo.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by David Lang »

Watco will have to weigh the cost of rehabilitating the line vs. the financial benefit if there is potential for reopening.

I looked closely at google maps from the Michigan/Wisconsin border all the way to White Pine including many street views. Most of the street views are from 2008, and at that time, the line looked pretty good with new ballest and ties. Apparently since then, much damage has occurred, which is too bad.

Its one thing to clear debris, add ballast, ties, and realignment/surface, however its quite another when bridges are damaged and require work. I am not a Civil Engineer, but I assume depending on the extent of bridge damage, the cost of repair/replacement really goes up, which would certainly be a contributing factor when determining cost/benefit analysis of the entire project. Maybe the line could be rehabilitated up to a certain point depending on the extent of the damage? Looking at the map that NS3322 provided, from Park Falls, WI to White Pine is a long way for sure. Even from there to Berland is still quite the distance. Does anyone know where the majority of the damage is, or is it spread out? It will be interesting to see what happens.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by NS3322 »

David Lang wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:44 am
Watco will have to weigh the cost of rehabilitating the line vs. the financial benefit if there is potential for reopening.

I looked closely at google maps from the Michigan/Wisconsin border all the way to White Pine including many street views. Most of the street views are from 2008, and at that time, the line looked pretty good with new ballest and ties. Apparently since then, much damage has occurred, which is too bad.

Its one thing to clear debris, add ballast, ties, and realignment/surface, however its quite another when bridges are damaged and require work. I am not a Civil Engineer, but I assume depending on the extent of bridge damage, the cost of repair/replacement really goes up, which would certainly be a contributing factor when determining cost/benefit analysis of the entire project. Maybe the line could be rehabilitated up to a certain point depending on the extent of the damage? Looking at the map that NS3322 provided, from Park Falls, WI to White Pine is a long way for sure. Even from there to Berland is still quite the distance. Does anyone know where the majority of the damage is, or is it spread out? It will be interesting to see what happens.
I believe a lot of the washouts and other damages (especially on the Wisconsin portions near Ashland) occurred on July 10, 2016. 10 inches of rain fell in only 8 hours, with some areas getting 14.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by David Lang »

WOW NS3322, that's an EPIC amount of rain! I seem to remember historic rain in Wisconsin several years back, but did not remember location and date. Thanks.

If we are talking about washouts...with an "s", as in plural, now what you have of course is a lot of expense, but if the majority of that damage was in and around Ashland, looking at the map, that would not impact the line to White Pine, where Chapmaja stated Wakefield and White Pine might be restarting mining operations.

I suppose there is still hope, will have to see what happens.

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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by Jim_c »

Just wondering, not even at the level of conjecture. It s roughly 45 miles from Bergland to the E&LS at Sidnaw, and roughly 63 miles to the CN just north of Marengo. Would it be cheaper to re-lay the track from Sidnaw to Bergland than it would be to rehabilitate the track to Marengo, and possibly from Marengo to Park Falls? IIRC, the Native Americans on the Bad River Reservation were objecting to some of the cargo when the line was still active. Or does Watco have an agreement to only interchange with CN on this line?
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Re: UP Mines Question

Unread post by CAT345C »

Watco estimate after rail and ties was close to 70 mil to rebuild to white pine. Most likely won't happen. Its all still light DSSA rail.
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