New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

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bnsfben
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by bnsfben »

Let’s be honest. Investing in freight service is a HUGE financial risk to SMRS because they are completely at the mercy of NS pricing. The NS would probably charge a pretty penny to pick up from an interchange at Raisin Center, not to mention the transit times would be horrible. It’s a very risky investment in my opinion, unless a customer would do a volume commitment.

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Ypsi
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by Ypsi »

bnsfben wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 3:05 pm
Let’s be honest. Investing in freight service is a HUGE financial risk to SMRS because they are completely at the mercy of NS pricing. The NS would probably charge a pretty penny to pick up from an interchange at Raisin Center, not to mention the transit times would be horrible. It’s a very risky investment in my opinion, unless a customer would do a volume commitment.
I mean these are generally expenses that the customer would absorb not the SMRS.. it’s not like SMRS would charge $300 for a spot to the customer then have NS charge $500 to pick it up. (Completely fictional numbers)

There are also options available for small short lines in terms of MDOT funding/ matching grants etc.. but SMRS wouldn’t be at the “mercy” of NS, it would be the customer. Also NS has a multiple time a week local to ADBF already. Transit times would likely be on par with what ADBF has.

IF a switch was installed the expenses post installation that SMRS would be responsible for would likely be the switch Maintenance fee (if NS passed that onto the short Line) and anything to meet higher FRA standards for crews on a connected line vs. insular line. Which would be considered if freight was considered for some reason. (This of course is beyond track MOW to get to RC, the switch install etc, but again MDOT has grants/ matching grants that make that more affordable)
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chapmaja
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by chapmaja »

Eric Berger wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 5:19 pm
AARR wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 7:48 am
Wacker Chemical between the old diamond and Tecumseh seems like they could become a legitimate customer if rail service was restored
I've been racking my brain here, but the older I get, the harder it becomes to remember things.

That being said, it seems to me as if Wacker may have been a customer before rail service was terminated. From the memory of that fall color tour I took from Tecumseh to Raisin Center around the turn of the century, I seem to remember seeing a switch there, and the spur abruptly ending at the gate going into the property.

There are a couple of places I could possibly see being customers IF service were to be restored. In addition to Wacker, I could also possibly see HMI Hardwoods, and maybe even the pallet place in Clinton, as customers. Possibly even the packaging place in Tecumseh.

Would the revenue generated from these make it worth restoring rail service to Clinton? Most likely, that would be a resounding NO. But, it's fun to dream, isn't it! :D
You are correct about Wacker having a spur off the line. It is still in to the gate per Google Maps Satellite images. Ends right at the gate, but does appears to be still connected to the mainline.

The issue with connecting the SMRS to the NS mainline is the layout of the area. This isn't a nice easy 90 degree crossing, with nothing around it, where you can easily put in a simple wye track and connect the two lines. While the crossing of the line used to be pretty close to 90 degrees, no evidence of an interchange track exists.

If you try putting a way track in the NW quadrant, you have to deal with cutting through a home owners property, and Raisin Center Rd, which cuts diagonally through the area. Going to the NE quadrant, you have more room, but would still have a person's property to deal with, and the road surface to cross. SW quadrant would mean crossing the NS mainline, then having to deal with the road, but in terms of property you would have what appears to be open land. The SE quadrant would be the easiest for an interchange, but would still require crossing the NS mainline, and then you would have farm land to deal with, but the road (other than a single crossing to reach the diamond) would not be an issue. In all cases you would also have to deal with crossing the drain that runs right alongside the tracks.

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DaveO
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by DaveO »

or you just get an agreement with ADBF and interchange in Adrian.
not going to happen either.

chapmaja
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by chapmaja »

DaveO wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:49 am
or you just get an agreement with ADBF and interchange in Adrian.
not going to happen either.
Still would require crossing over the NS mainline, which is the biggest problem and the reason your last statement is spot on.

I can't imagine all the additional red tape that would be required to go from a landlocked railroad like they are now, to being part of the national rail system which a connection would create.

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Ypsi
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by Ypsi »

chapmaja wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:33 pm
DaveO wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:49 am
or you just get an agreement with ADBF and interchange in Adrian.
not going to happen either.
Still would require crossing over the NS mainline, which is the biggest problem and the reason your last statement is spot on.

I can't imagine all the additional red tape that would be required to go from a landlocked railroad like they are now, to being part of the national rail system which a connection would create.
The best option would be a switch to the NW corner. You would just need to go behind current land owners and between a field/ that property. The land is there and the curve would not be super sharp. Technically a OWLS diamond would probably last a decent amount with limited traffic, but you would need full signaling etc. A switch wouldn't need to be fully signaled as a diamond would.
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DaveO
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by DaveO »

Just build a flyover.
Melbourne has quite a few as it's the easy way to eliminate grade crossings.
The broad gauge electric commuter trains do a good job of messing up traffic during the rush hours.
But they do run broad gauge freights over those flyovers.
The freights aren't a mile long though...which wouldn't be a problem with the SMRS route using the most optimistic traffic projections.
Now, who wants to pay for one :?:

chapmaja
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by chapmaja »

DaveO wrote:
Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:25 pm
Just build a flyover.
Melbourne has quite a few as it's the easy way to eliminate grade crossings.
The broad gauge electric commuter trains do a good job of messing up traffic during the rush hours.
But they do run broad gauge freights over those flyovers.
The freights aren't a mile long though...which wouldn't be a problem with the SMRS route using the most optimistic traffic projections.
Now, who wants to pay for one :?:
I like the flyover idea, but who would pay for it? Why do we have to spoil everything with reality. Just to get freight service to the SMRS you would need a lot of work and a lot of expensive work. If you tried getting trackage rights for interchange to Riga (IORY to access NS competitors), or Adrian (NS connection), it would take a lot of work to find the tracks, let alone bring them up to 86 pound capacity (then up to 286,000 pound after that).

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Eric Berger
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by Eric Berger »

"Project Phoenix" has been shelved.

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Chip
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

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Bad link

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J T
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Re: New threat to SMRS?—"Project Phoenix"

Unread post by J T »

J T wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:43 pm
"Project Phoenix" looks like one of those development dreams that never come to fruition. Lots of talk and excitement in the community and then they just fizzle away. I've seen similar things happen in the Grand Rapids area in the past decade or so.
Well that was easy to predict.
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