Michigan line

Anything pertaining to railfanning in Michigan.
MSchwiebert
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

Last year, for a little bit NS did run a train around the northwest connection at Butler. Apparently, they no longer do so. How they negotiated that with CP, I do not know.

One thing to consider with intermodal traffic, is that Detroit is an easy dray from any of the Chicago terminals, with the added benefit that it's easy to find loads to take back to Chicago. (Indianapolis is in a similar situation)
On the other hand, CSX and CP both move container traffic to/from Detroit via North Baltimore OH, in CSX's instance how much of that arrives/departs North Baltimore via the UP & BNSF trains that originate/terminate there, I do not know.
In the Penn Central era, it made sense not to have any interest in the line west of Kalamazoo and to force it on Amtrak as part of Conrail's creation, considering everything could still be routed through Elkhart yard. As for the Canada Southern, yes it was a victim of Conrail's 1980's era rationalizations. There's a Trains magazine article from the era that details the proposed sale, who else proposed purchasing the line besides CN & CP (Matty Moroun was one of them) and the fear - which proved to be correct, that if CN & CP won, they would keep the border crossings and abandon the rest. (it's also interesting to note that the other two US railroads that ran Detroit-Buffalo via Canada (NS & CSX) at the time, gave up their routings as well)

Long story short, if the trailer/container bound for Detroit leaves the rail car at any of the Chicago terminals - it's most likely going to go to Detroit on the Interstate.
ConrailDetr​oit wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:25 pm
SD80MAC wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:03 am
Steve B wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:03 am

Does NS ever use the northwest connector at Butler? I've only seen CP use it. Of course traffic from Detroit can also go to Chicago via Ft. Wayne, in addition to via Toledo.
No, CP owns the northwest connection at Butler, and is therefor only used by CP trains. All NS traffic bound for Michigan takes the long way via Toledo.
How does the NS justify allowing another railroad with trackage rights to lay track between theirs, and being excluded from using?

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justalurker66
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by justalurker66 »

MSchwiebert wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:06 pm
Last year, for a little bit NS did run a train around the northwest connection at Butler. Apparently, they no longer do so. How they negotiated that with CP, I do not know.
NS trains on an NS built track on NS owned land connecting two NS owned railroads? It shouldn't be much of a negotiation.

As mentioned early in this thread I am seeking proof that there is a restriction on the connection. I did find a related trackage rights agreement between NS and CP where the cost of a connector was to be divided based on usage. The payment was based on usage for the first year (which would have ended in 2006 if a similar agreement applied at Butler). No "we're building this connector between two of our railroads but can't use it ourselves" prohibition. Just a financial penalty if NS used the connection during the first year.

As others have noted, NS doesn't need the NW connector and can easily run Detroit to Toledo to get on the Chicago Line or run Detroit to Fort Wayne to get to their other lines in Indiana.

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NS3322
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by NS3322 »

Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:30 pm
Does anyone know if Dowagiac will start getting service again? I noticed that the Ameriwood spur recently received new ballast and that they replaced some rails that split off from the spur and dead end between Judd Lumber and the Dowagiac train station. Ameriwood hasn’t received anything by rail in over 2 years now. Why ballast a spur that isn’t being used?
Ameriwood's decision to convert the Dowagiac plant to a distribution center was permanent, so I doubt they will ever use rail service again...it sounds like they even moved production equipment to other facilities.

Amtrak is probably just using the spur to stage MOW equipment.

Dowagiac Train Dude
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by Dowagiac Train Dude »

NS3322 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:32 am
Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:30 pm
Does anyone know if Dowagiac will start getting service again? I noticed that the Ameriwood spur recently received new ballast and that they replaced some rails that split off from the spur and dead end between Judd Lumber and the Dowagiac train station. Ameriwood hasn’t received anything by rail in over 2 years now. Why ballast a spur that isn’t being used?

Ameriwood's decision to convert the Dowagiac plant to a distribution center was permanent, so I doubt they will ever use rail service again...it sounds like they even moved production equipment to other facilities.


Amtrak is probably just using the spur to stage MOW equipment.
Thank you very much. I was hoping it meant something would be happening in Dowagiac again on the service side of things. A guy can dream right?

Amtrak has a spur not much further north on the west side of the double mainline tracks that they have always used for MOW equipment. Interesting that they would use that other spur for MOW also.

Chip
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by Chip »

Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:06 am
NS3322 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:32 am
Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:30 pm
Does anyone know if Dowagiac will start getting service again? I noticed that the Ameriwood spur recently received new ballast and that they replaced some rails that split off from the spur and dead end between Judd Lumber and the Dowagiac train station. Ameriwood hasn’t received anything by rail in over 2 years now. Why ballast a spur that isn’t being used?

Ameriwood's decision to convert the Dowagiac plant to a distribution center was permanent, so I doubt they will ever use rail service again...it sounds like they even moved production equipment to other facilities.


Amtrak is probably just using the spur to stage MOW equipment.
Thank you very much. I was hoping it meant something would be happening in Dowagiac again on the service side of things. A guy can dream right?

Amtrak has a spur not much further north on the west side of the double mainline tracks that they have always used for MOW equipment. Interesting that they would use that other spur for MOW also.
extra work = extra equipment needed

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kd_1014
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by kd_1014 »

Chip wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:39 am
Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:06 am
NS3322 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:32 am



Ameriwood's decision to convert the Dowagiac plant to a distribution center was permanent, so I doubt they will ever use rail service again...it sounds like they even moved production equipment to other facilities.


Amtrak is probably just using the spur to stage MOW equipment.
Thank you very much. I was hoping it meant something would be happening in Dowagiac again on the service side of things. A guy can dream right?

Amtrak has a spur not much further north on the west side of the double mainline tracks that they have always used for MOW equipment. Interesting that they would use that other spur for MOW also.
extra work = extra equipment needed
= more room needed

Dowagiac Train Dude
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by Dowagiac Train Dude »

kd_1014 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:44 pm
Chip wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:39 am
Dowagiac Train Dude wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:06 am


Thank you very much. I was hoping it meant something would be happening in Dowagiac again on the service side of things. A guy can dream right?

Amtrak has a spur not much further north on the west side of the double mainline tracks that they have always used for MOW equipment. Interesting that they would use that other spur for MOW also.
extra work = extra equipment needed
= more room needed
Looks like you are right.
E2728E1F-2059-4512-A40F-97F3CA148D47.png

CSXBOY
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by CSXBOY »

Going back to David Lang's comment

Yeah I cringe it too myself. Every time I drive on I 94 going out towards Chicago through Michigan, there seems to tons of convoys of trucks. Sad thing is that highway isn't even maintained for today's heavy economy. It is very rough near Jackson and two lanes on each side from Dexter to at least Kalamazoo. I just thought having more intermodal trains on the Michigan line would get those trucks off the interstate and build some competition. But I did not realize that it would take 12-18 hours for a train and 5-6 hours by truck. People really want their shipments and I would rather have it come in 5 hours by truck than by 12 hours by train. Now if the state of Michigan could actually invest money into I-94 but I believe that is a topic for another website.

JStryker722
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by JStryker722 »

1TrackMind wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:57 am
JStryker722 wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:58 pm
This was put in shortly after CP gained Detroit to Chicago trackage rights on NS in 2009.
Connection has been there since 2005...
Must have happened when CP first started looking at switching off of CSX then. I wouldn't have guessed that. Good to know!
My Wife says my first love is trains..anint that the truth! Lol :D

Steve B
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by Steve B »

CSXBOY wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:28 pm
Now if the state of Michigan could actually invest money into I-94 but I believe that is a topic for another website.
Currently they're doing a $3.2 billion total rebuilding of 6.7 miles of I-94 in Detroit. That's the most obsolete section. There was the recent massive rebuilding along the north side of Jackson. 8.8 miles from Mich Ave to M-60 will be reconstructed this year.

For comparison, MDOT projects to spend $25.4 million in FY 2022 on maintenance and capital projects for the Amtrak line between Dearborn and Kalamazoo.

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SD80MAC
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by SD80MAC »

JStryker722 wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:44 pm
1TrackMind wrote:
Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:57 am
JStryker722 wrote:
Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:58 pm
This was put in shortly after CP gained Detroit to Chicago trackage rights on NS in 2009.
Connection has been there since 2005...
Must have happened when CP first started looking at switching off of CSX then. I wouldn't have guessed that. Good to know!
All but one of the CP trains running on CSX in Michigan shifted to the NS routing at the end of 2005.
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JStryker722
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by JStryker722 »

Thanks for letting me know!
My Wife says my first love is trains..anint that the truth! Lol :D

Dowagiac Train Dude
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Re: Michigan line

Unread post by Dowagiac Train Dude »

NS unit train went through Dowagiac on its way to Cargill in Decatur at 7:20pm. Did not get to see all of the power in front.

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