New 86' Box Car?

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AARR
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New 86' Box Car?

Unread post by AARR »

This is a Jason Asselin video of E&LS. Go to the 5"30"' mark. Is that a relatively new 86' box car? I've seen that type of end-bracing on 50' and 60' cars but never on an 86'.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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DaveO
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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60'9". I regret giving his video a view.

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AARR
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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DaveO
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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AARR, if you get a good road number, then search for it.
In this case http://www.rrpicturearchives.net has quite a few pictures of those DWC series boxcars.
The length is stated as 60 foot 9 inches, not 86 foot.
Due to changes in how the auto industry works, the need for 86 foot boxcars is nearing zero.

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Standard Railfan
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

Unread post by Standard Railfan »

The internet is our friend. :D
http://www.railfan.rrpicturearchives.n ... id=1126521

This type of car is used frequently for shipment of OSB products from Louisiana-Pacific mills.

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DaveO
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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The one thing I couldn't find was a good picture of the car side data.
Class XP cars are supposed to be 69 feet long, but yet :)
Between the photo angles and graffiti, I couldn't find any pictures where the length was readable.

6 months or so ago, I was wondering if any of the 86 footers were still in use.
At that point, the answer was they were.
It was these shorter cars that stoked my curiosity.

EDIT:
Going through some more pictures I found this picture of DWC 793048.
http://www.railfan.rrpicturearchives.ne ... ?id=653273
The poster gives the data as:

Owner: Canadian National Railways
Old Name: Duluth, Winnipeg & Pacific
Type: Box Car
AAR Class: XP: Boxcar similar in design to "XM", but which is specially equipped, designed, and/or structurally suitable for a specific commodity loading; except, boxcars (XF, XM, XMI) dedicated to the transportation of commodities in paragraph A, Rule 97, AAR Interchange Rules, must be designated "XP".
AAR Type: A606
Detail Info: Equipped Box Car, Inside Length: 69' to 79', cushion draft gear/underframe, Plug door, opening greater than 11 feet
Plate: F
Max Gross Weight: 286000
Load Limit: 207800
Dry Capacity: 7500
Ext L/W/H: 68' 5" / 10' 8" / 16' 11"
Int L/W/H: 60' 9" / 9' 6" / 13' 0"

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AARR
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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Thank you DaveO and SRF. I appreciate your assistance.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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DaveO
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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CSX has this useful chart https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers ... ormat=true
The 60 foot car door is 10-12 feet wide.
The 86 foot car door is 20 foot wide.
The relative proportions of the door width to car length is such that by itself, the 60 foot car seems to be an 86 foot car.
At least in IMHO.

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AARR
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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I think you nailed why it’s playing tricks on my old eyes
DaveO wrote:
Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:39 am
CSX has this useful chart https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers ... ormat=true
The 60 foot car door is 10-12 feet wide.
The 86 foot car door is 20 foot wide.
The relative proportions of the door width to car length is such that by itself, the 60 foot car seems to be an 86 foot car.
At least in IMHO.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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DaveO wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:20 pm
AARR, if you get a good road number, then search for it.
In this case http://www.rrpicturearchives.net has quite a few pictures of those DWC series boxcars.
The length is stated as 60 foot 9 inches, not 86 foot.
Due to changes in how the auto industry works, the need for 86 foot boxcars is nearing zero.
DaveO et al, I'm really interested in hearing the details of why the auto industry needed 86' box cars and now they don't. I have some suspicions that it is based on just in time manufacturing and distribution vs warehousing inventory. But that is just a hunch I have. Could you or someone shed some more light on this for me.

A basic economic principle is that economies typically scale to a point and then the law of diminishing marginal returns dictates a practical limit. Sounds like the 86' boxcar and then back to the 60' boxcar was the limit. If that is true I'm curious to know why. What circumstances dictated that?
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DaveO
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

Unread post by DaveO »

The last 86 footer was built during 1978 and they will soon face the AAR 50 year interchange rule.
I can't see anyone putting the money into them to keep them rolling.
Some of that freight goes in those 60 footers which can carry 30 more tons.
But of course the biggest change is the transition to just-in-time.
Putting the parts plants closer to the assembly plants is much more reliable.
Businesses don't like stockpiling as evidenced by the chip shortage.

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Re: New 86' Box Car?

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The 86’ car was designed to efficiently handle less-dense components like body panels. Today, most of those components are made on-site at the fully-integrated plants.

Less dense components would ride in the shorter 60-ish foot cars, like engines and transmissions.

What’s really killing off the boxcars en masse is containerization. Way more flexible to put everything in 53s and buy the intermodal lane you want. Then, the auto manufacturer has the added benefit of stocking the trailers on their site and hoslting them anywhere with drayage drivers, versus relying on the railroad to spot. So there’s also a storage-in-transit component to it too.

Essentially all other boxcar shipments would weigh-out a 86’ boxcar wayyy before cubing it out. Hence why the 60-footer is now dominant.
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Re: New 86' Box Car?

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

I would suspect that if there is still a need for 86' cars to be in service in the upcoming years, that some will go through the "life extension program" that can get them to 65 years. One is already starting to see quite a few flatcars that are used in autorack service that have been done. These are the cars with "R" or "R1" after the car number. Like those flat cars, 86' cars usually cube out before they weigh out, so they're not stressed as much as say a hopper car carrying taconite.

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