Study Time....again - A2TC commuter rail project

[GRHC]

The only trains that will work in this state are the ones running on the current routes. Anything beyond those routes is a railfan fantasy.

[KenB]

Once we are forced into electric vehicles more rail service will be required. A train from Detroit to Lansing, Grand Rapids, Holland, Michigan City will give more connectivity to a large population base.
People from Detroit would be able to go to Tulip festival on a one day trip. Go to Lake Michigan beaches on a one day excursion.
Once people are forced into electric automobiles, gasolne prices will go up since the oil companies will close refineries (clean air).
To start I would like to see a Detroit-Michigan City train than a Traverse City to AA and maybe Dearborn. You get these service going that will cover most of the people in the lower pensula.
Yes, it will cost lots of money but how much are we paying for roads, airlines, waterways, electric car chargers. No transportation pays its own way. When was the last time you saw a Yellow Freight snow plow on I-94.

[justalurker66]

The big problem with replacing cars with trains is the end point. Once you get to Holland how do you get to the tulips? Once you get to Traverse City how do you get to the tourist spots? Follow the schedule of whatever public buses exist? Ride share? Unless the train stops where passengers want to go they will need transportation at each end point.

Those that were alive in the 1970s may remember the threat of higher gas prices and the same predictions that people would stop owning cars. Gas prices are now at least four times higher and people are still buying personal vehicles that go where they want when they want. Independent living separate from a train or public transportation schedule.

Forced to electric cars? I hope not. Sane people need to do what they can to prevent such decisions from being made.

[Chip]

The big problem with replacing cars with trains is the end point. Once you get to Holland how do you get to the tulips? Once you get to Traverse City how do you get to the tourist spots? Follow the schedule of whatever public buses exist? Ride share? Unless the train stops where passengers want to go they will need transportation at each end point.

Those that were alive in the 1970s may remember the threat of higher gas prices and the same predictions that people would stop owning cars. Gas prices are now at least four times higher and people are still buying personal vehicles that go where they want when they want. Independent living separate from a train or public transportation schedule.

Forced to electric cars? I hope not. Sane people need to do what they can to prevent such decisions from being made.

you’re crazy. I’ve been told that cars are irrelevant in this discussion. Just take it with you or walk when you get there

[KenB]

Yes, that is quite a problem now a-days. When I was young we rode the bus everywhere. People now do not like rideing a bus. Not "hip" enough. Traverse City and Holland do have bus service and they meet the trains at the Depot so one can take the bus. Having rental electric automobiles at the train station would work too but at a moderate price. Too many places up North want to gouge the toursts. Grad all the money they can now so people won't be back.
Unfortunally our Government is hell bent on controling he population and want to force us into electric automobiles. Try driving your electric automobile up US 23-I-75 after work on a friday night to go snow mobiling driving in the dark, about an inch of snow on the road at 25 degrees with headlights on and heater on and see how far you get without having to stop, find a charger and hope it is working and there is not a line to use it. Better to take train for long haul and rent an automobile at the location.
A Detroit-Michigan City and a Dearborn-TC train can work if we want it and people who run it are responsive to the customer needs.

[justalurker66]

Yes, that is quite a problem now a-days. When I was young we rode the bus everywhere. People now do not like rideing a bus. Not "hip" enough. Traverse City and Holland do have bus service and they meet the trains at the Depot so one can take the bus.

In my case there were no buses in most of the areas I lived growing up. I lived in England for a while and they had a decent bus network but for the rest of my life (prior and after England) there was no reasonable bus service.

Try driving your electric automobile up US 23-I-75 after work on a friday night to go snow mobiling driving in the dark, about an inch of snow on the road at 25 degrees with headlights on and heater on and see how far you get without having to stop, find a charger and hope it is working and there is not a line to use it.

Personal experience or manufactured story? I have co-workers with all electric vehicles that would defend their experiences. So far they have not convinced me to go all electric - or even hybrid. BTW: In your scenario are you leasing the snowmobile or leaving one stored up north or towing one on a trailer?

Better to take train for long haul and rent an automobile at the location. A Detroit-Michigan City and a Dearborn-TC train can work if we want it and people who run it are responsive to the customer needs.

Not enough demand for a train nor rental cars to meet the endpoint need. An AA to TC train is a non-starter.

[joeyuboats]

I won't be using this service, even if it does actually come to fruition, but just to make it fair to all, it should be based on a user- only basis. If you want to use it, you pay for it, and do not bill any of it to the taxpayer.

[J T]

I won't be using this service, even if it does actually come to fruition, but just to make it fair to all, it should be based on a user- only basis. If you want to use it, you pay for it, and do not bill any of it to the taxpayer.

There is a reason railroads don't already follow this model. Well, they did at one time, but we all know how that eventually worked out.

[MrAnderson]

For railfans y'all seem to be very carbrained.

[SD80MAC]

For railfans y'all seem to be very carbrained.

Nah, just rooted in reality, not pipe dreams.

[justalurker66]

For railfans y'all seem to be very carbrained.

I prefer lines that are viable. Build an actual A2TC service that is viable and I'll accept it. Spending money on studies for a line that isn't viable just takes money away from viable projects elsewhere. The only good that could come out of such a study would be the inclusion of railroad information normally kept confidential in filings. I have been able to get some decent official information from public filings.

[J T]

For railfans y'all seem to be very carbrained.

Many of us also like to ride bikes, too.

[KenB]

Well Joeyuboats I do have to agree with you to a point. I will have to assume you do not drive an automobile since ALL roads are subsized by taxpayers. You do do not fly since the air space is subsized by taxpayers, You do not use the waterways again since they are all subsized by taxpayers. Why is passenger rail the only form of transportation that people think is to make a profit? Highways, airways, waterways, bike lanes/paths, trails do not produce one penny of profit but are essental to keep our country together and moving forward. Same with passenger and freight rail.

[Fred]

Do you think Delta, United, and the rest would be profitable if THEY had to build the airport, maintain it, and staff air traffic controllers ? Not on your life !

[MrAnderson]

Nah, just rooted in reality, not pipe dreams.

Well unfortunately, climate change isn't a pipe dream, it's reality.

[Jetlink]

Nah, just rooted in reality, not pipe dreams.

Well unfortunately, climate change isn't a pipe dream, it's reality.

I agree. And Many would argue the Earth's climate has been changing for thousands and thousands of years. Many think just before the event forming the KT line there was no ice on the planet at all. But that isn't really that relevant to whether or not it makes economic or logistical sense to operate this service or even to study this project yet again.

[J T]

I agree. And Many would argue the Earth's climate has been changing for thousands and thousands of years.

Just thousands? Try billions. And as always, life will adapt.

[joeyuboats]

Like George Carlin once said---the Earth is fine,it's not going anywhere, but the same cannot be said for the people.

[joeyuboats]

Well, Ken; I,do drive, but have never flown, and do not use waterways. I think that to a point, we all forget the amount of subsidizing that the government does, but for me when the railroads got out of the passenger game, that sort of said it all. Personally, I have never liked Amtrak and all the money it has lost or wasted all these years. I do know it is profitable in a few areas, but as a whole, it is not.Oh, and, bike lanes,paths and trails are not essential, but they are Allright to have,I guess. But due to declining health,I probably have 3 to 5 years left, and then whatever will happen, will happen.

[Schteinkuh]

Nah, just rooted in reality, not pipe dreams.

Well unfortunately, climate change isn't a pipe dream, it's reality.

Would it shock you if I said you were speaking to a car salesman, Mr. Anderson?