CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Chip
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:07 am
conrailmike wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:11 am
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:06 am


Bro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.
What traffic have they taken away?
They have won bids on traffic from Jefferson North, Warren Truck, Sterling Heights, and Mack Avenue.

Jefferson North - Jeep Grand Cherokee; Warren Truck - Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Sterling Heights - Ram 1500
Mack Avenue - Jeep Grand Cherokee

They've been getting traffic from FCA Sterling Heights and Ford MAP for about 2 years. Jefferson North, Warren, and Mack are nuevo this year.

It’s been well known that they have made some aggressive bids this year on auto-loading traffic. I think the CSX/LSRC Flint thing pissed off some people. Might be some new sales people involved…
What is CN getting from MAP? We have CSX to the East of us and NS/Amtrak between the 2 halves of the complex. I'm literally looking at a NS SD40-2 sitting right outside the dock at the end of my line right now.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:53 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:07 am
conrailmike wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:11 am


What traffic have they taken away?
They have won bids on traffic from Jefferson North, Warren Truck, Sterling Heights, and Mack Avenue.

Jefferson North - Jeep Grand Cherokee; Warren Truck - Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Sterling Heights - Ram 1500
Mack Avenue - Jeep Grand Cherokee

They've been getting traffic from FCA Sterling Heights and Ford MAP for about 2 years. Jefferson North, Warren, and Mack are nuevo this year.

It’s been well known that they have made some aggressive bids this year on auto-loading traffic. I think the CSX/LSRC Flint thing pissed off some people. Might be some new sales people involved…
What is CN getting from MAP? We have CSX to the East of us and NS/Amtrak between the 2 halves of the complex. I'm literally looking at a NS SD40-2 sitting right outside the dock at the end of my line right now.
Trucking em to Flat Rock I’m told. Nothing additional being loaded in Lansing that isn’t made here. Flat Rock is busy bees. We’d see more impacts if there wasn’t a chip shortage.
Last edited by LansingRailFan on Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AARR
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:36 pm
Trucking em to Flat Rock I’m told. Nothing additional being loaded in Lansing that isn’t made here. Flat Rock is busy bees. We’d see more impacts if there wasn’t a chip shortage.
CN has several auto loading ramps around the Flat Rock area. And, LRF is right, there are a lot of vehicle racks on the Flat Rock train to Battle Creek. I didn't realize there was that many kinds of autos inside the racks, though.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:36 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:53 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 11:07 am


They have won bids on traffic from Jefferson North, Warren Truck, Sterling Heights, and Mack Avenue.

Jefferson North - Jeep Grand Cherokee; Warren Truck - Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Sterling Heights - Ram 1500
Mack Avenue - Jeep Grand Cherokee

They've been getting traffic from FCA Sterling Heights and Ford MAP for about 2 years. Jefferson North, Warren, and Mack are nuevo this year.

It’s been well known that they have made some aggressive bids this year on auto-loading traffic. I think the CSX/LSRC Flint thing pissed off some people. Might be some new sales people involved…
What is CN getting from MAP? We have CSX to the East of us and NS/Amtrak between the 2 halves of the complex. I'm literally looking at a NS SD40-2 sitting right outside the dock at the end of my line right now.
Trucking em to Flat Rock I’m told. Nothing additional being loaded in Lansing that isn’t made here. Flat Rock is busy bees. We’d see more impacts if there wasn’t a chip shortage.
It wouldn't be Flat Rock, I would see far more Rangers and Broncos in that lot when I drive by (and I do every day on my way to and from work since I live on the other side of I-75 from FRAP). There's usually a handful but by no means an entire train worth. A ton of F-150s from Dearborn though, and Mustangs of course. I do know that Rangers and Broncos that get shipped to the lot on King Rd west of Allen Rd. via convoy and loaded onto trains there.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:22 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:36 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:53 pm


What is CN getting from MAP? We have CSX to the East of us and NS/Amtrak between the 2 halves of the complex. I'm literally looking at a NS SD40-2 sitting right outside the dock at the end of my line right now.
Trucking em to Flat Rock I’m told. Nothing additional being loaded in Lansing that isn’t made here. Flat Rock is busy bees. We’d see more impacts if there wasn’t a chip shortage.
It wouldn't be Flat Rock, I would see far more Rangers and Broncos in that lot when I drive by (and I do every day on my way to and from work since I live on the other side of I-75 from FRAP). There's usually a handful but by no means an entire train worth. A ton of F-150s from Dearborn though, and Mustangs of course. I do know that Rangers and Broncos that get shipped to the lot on King Rd west of Allen Rd. via convoy and loaded onto trains there.
FCA is loaded at the ramp in Woodhaven on the Dearborn Sub.

Ford is loaded at The two ramps in Flat Rock and the facility at Rouge.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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ConrailDetr​oit wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:49 am
Bro you out of touch? CN is running away w auto traffic in MI right now, bidding very aggressively and stealing a lot of biz from CR, NS and CSX.
What is the emperical evidence?
* em·pir·i·cal

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:47 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:22 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 4:36 pm


Trucking em to Flat Rock I’m told. Nothing additional being loaded in Lansing that isn’t made here. Flat Rock is busy bees. We’d see more impacts if there wasn’t a chip shortage.
It wouldn't be Flat Rock, I would see far more Rangers and Broncos in that lot when I drive by (and I do every day on my way to and from work since I live on the other side of I-75 from FRAP). There's usually a handful but by no means an entire train worth. A ton of F-150s from Dearborn though, and Mustangs of course. I do know that Rangers and Broncos that get shipped to the lot on King Rd west of Allen Rd. via convoy and loaded onto trains there.
FCA is loaded at the ramp in Woodhaven on the Dearborn Sub.

Ford is loaded at The two ramps in Flat Rock and the facility at Rouge.
There's Broncos and Rangers loaded there in Woodhaven too, I see them all the time.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:50 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:47 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:22 pm


It wouldn't be Flat Rock, I would see far more Rangers and Broncos in that lot when I drive by (and I do every day on my way to and from work since I live on the other side of I-75 from FRAP). There's usually a handful but by no means an entire train worth. A ton of F-150s from Dearborn though, and Mustangs of course. I do know that Rangers and Broncos that get shipped to the lot on King Rd west of Allen Rd. via convoy and loaded onto trains there.
FCA is loaded at the ramp in Woodhaven on the Dearborn Sub.

Ford is loaded at The two ramps in Flat Rock and the facility at Rouge.
There's Broncos and Rangers loaded there in Woodhaven too, I see them all the time.
Awesome.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by ns8401 »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 9:56 pm
Chip wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:50 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:47 pm


FCA is loaded at the ramp in Woodhaven on the Dearborn Sub.

Ford is loaded at The two ramps in Flat Rock and the facility at Rouge.
There's Broncos and Rangers loaded there in Woodhaven too, I see them all the time.
Awesome.
Admin edit: if you have commentary towards another poster that's nothing to do with this thread's subject, PM me or the offending person directly please.

As for MAP… the traffic on CSX and NS from there is still quite significant, particularly on the CSX. Rest assured that yard of theirs is full of racks most of the time. The NS local varies widely in how many racks they have each day making the trip to Oakwood.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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The lot on the CSX side is much larger than the west lot that feeds NS. NS handles much more incoming parts, particularly frames and steel coils.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Thanks LRF for the insight into CN automotive shipments!

Here's one article from late 2020 discussing one of the wins for CN. https://railsandports.com/2020/12/davis ... w-routing/

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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I’ve noticed that too. NS brings in blocks of frames as high as 20 sometimes which is quite a sight. I know Wayne Industries gets a ton of coils on a daily basis. Does MAP get coils directly or do they go next door and then get brought over to the plant somehow?
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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ns8401 wrote:
Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:02 am
I’ve noticed that too. NS brings in blocks of frames as high as 20 sometimes which is quite a sight. I know Wayne Industries gets a ton of coils on a daily basis. Does MAP get coils directly or do they go next door and then get brought over to the plant somehow?
I don't work in the press room (I work in the body shop) so I don't know what parts are stamped from coils vs. flat steel but I'm pretty sure there's a mix of both. The flat steel is brought in on trucks. Maybe those coils are for Wayne industries, not us.

Dearborn Truck gets frames in the same manner, just more of them since their weekly production is much higher than ours at the moment.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Steve B wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:04 pm
I know this is better suited to the history board, oh well. I looked up some stuff in old Free Press articles online. It wasn't the New York Central that drove the GT to build the eastern part of the belt line, but the Pere Marquette. There was a ton of information, the following only touches on the main points.

When the Belt Line project was announced in Oct. 1926, GT said it would go only as far as "the intersection of Columbia road and the PO&N tracks north of the city," indicating that it would curve to the south and terminate at that point. Construction started by May 1927.

Then on 9/30/1927 the Pere Marquette announced it had asked the ICC for permission for a fantastic scheme. It proposed to build from St. Clair (opposite Courtright ON, which it was to build a line to presumably from St. Thomas area) through Lenox, Richmond, Pontiac and then 17 miles to tie into the main line at Wixom. Included in the total was a 7 mile belt line through Pontiac, as the PM had bought the franchise of the Pontiac Belt Line Co., organized in 1922. President Frank H. Alfred said this plan would eliminate the congestion at the Detroit yards, and that space had been worked out with all the GM plants for PM's tracks.

On the very next day, the GT system asked the ICC for permission to extend its belt line project from the PO&N southward down to the Holly Sub.

A big hearing was held at Detroit's Statler Hotel in Dec. 1927 for both sides to present their case to the ICC. The Chamber of Commerce and head of GM's Oakland division pledged their support to PM's plan. Some Pontiac citizens noted that they had approached the GT/CN about building a belt line east of the PO&N, but CN told the city it would have to pay for the right of way. The PM then spent $1,250,000 of its own money on right of way acquisition.

The ICC denied the PM's application on 5/26/1928, after much argument by Pontiac interests in favor of the PM, at one point requesting that PM and GT operate it jointly.

The belt line was completed in June 1931, with an inaugural special carrying 1,000 passengers.

I was going to post this on the History board, but figured it might have more relevance here. I found a copy of the PM's ICC application to expand in the middle of a file with documents from a defunct shortline that used to operate in the Port Huron area.
1927 PM Expansion Application- Wixom-Pontiac-Richmond 1.jpg
1927 PM Expansion Application- Wixom-Pontiac-Richmond 2.jpg
1927 PM Expansion Application- Wixom-Pontiac-Richmond 3.jpg

Take from this what you will (and ~Z~ or AARR, if you believe this belongs somewhere else, please move it).

One of my current personal projects (obsessions, if you will) involves digitizing a collection of documents from a local (to me) organization. Once in a while I find something that's not part of the main project that can be shared elsewhere (like this), but the primary goal is to make as much content from the collection available online as possible- something the organization itself failed to do. My apologies if this should have gone into its own thread on the history board.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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My friend and her family own a RV storage facility out in Lake Orion and she says she heard railroad crossing bells this evening there at Collier Road. I believe this is the first time any crossings that are on the branch have been activated in quite some time.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by DaveO »

CN has removed a rail on each side of the track just south of Collier Road.
Don't think a train activated that crossing.
https://goo.gl/maps/XyhvdDSLQHMWZR2M9

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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DaveO wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:52 pm
CN has removed a rail on each side of the track just south of Collier Road.
Don't think a train activated that crossing.
https://goo.gl/maps/XyhvdDSLQHMWZR2M9
I wasn’t saying it was a train, it was a MoW crew, I should’ve mentioned that
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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So perhaps I missed it, but did they say what kind of EV they will build?
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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Trucks is all I saw

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