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New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:37 pm
by David Collins
CN (EX IC) GP38-2 #9568 is in Pontiac, MI as of last night... Possibly on L513-515, No clue, just out of curiosity, are there any differences between the GTW/IC Geeps other than the paint jobs...
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:01 pm
by SD80MAC
Some of IC's GP38-2s have nose headlights, while GTW's have cab headlights. 9568 appears to have a cab headlight and was repainted into CN colors around 2007.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:10 pm
by GTW Dude
Gonna miss beat up CN 5246 Michigan doesn’t see zebra stripe units often unless they’re on an old BCOL Barn. but hey, I’m down for a former IC Geep anyday
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:11 pm
by DaveO
Any CN engine with sublettering belongs directly to that railroad, not directly to CN, even though wearing CN paint.
The exception being there are or were some CN engines that had CN sublettering which is/was redundant.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:13 pm
by GTW Dude
DaveO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:11 pm
Any CN engine with sublettering belongs directly to that railroad, not directly to CN, even though wearing CN paint.
The exception being there are or were some CN engines that had CN sublettering which is/was redundant.
Yeah but isn’t everything except the GTW subsidized by CN under the Grand Trunk Corporation? I wasn’t aware there were more roads under CN’s name that were railroads on paper.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:21 pm
by Saturnalia
GTW Dude wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:13 pm
DaveO wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:11 pm
Any CN engine with sublettering belongs directly to that railroad, not directly to CN, even though wearing CN paint.
The exception being there are or were some CN engines that had CN sublettering which is/was redundant.
Yeah but isn’t everything except the GTW subsidized by CN under the Grand Trunk Corporation? I wasn’t aware there were more roads under CN’s name that were railroads on paper.
All of the US railroads are wholly owned subsidiaries of Canadian National, and are accounted for accordingly. It really only comes down to accounting and union agreements, which is why the engines stay where they are. I would anticipate that CN will keep pulling all new power under the CN head, but not transfer old stuff to CN.
Guys working in the US are still paid by GTW, IC, EJ&E, WC and DM&IR. All still active paper railroads.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:24 pm
by DaveO
Since it has IC sublettering, it belongs to the IC.
IC 9568 was on the roster during the same period CN 9568 was rostered.
2 engines with the same number would not be a good thing.
To a railfan it doesn't matter, but to a corporation it does.
Edit to add these 2 recent pictures. Take close notice of the engine numbers.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5507424
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5490835
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:55 pm
by Dan Cluley
IC 9568 went west on 251. Just saw it through Lansing a few minutes ago
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:09 pm
by GTWChris
IC 9560 - IC 9574 are ex-GMO and IC 9600 - IC 9639 were purchased by ICG (IC + GMO). The ex-GMO units always had high headlights and the ICG units originally had nose headlights and a bell mounted on the long hood. These have been rebuilt by both the IC and CN and very few retain their nose headlight.
If you pay attention to the various GTW GP38-2s, you'll notice lots of small differences between them. The GTW GP38-2s you see today all came from multiple different railroads (GTW, DT&I, P&LE, RI, & MP). Differences you'll see are the length of the short hood, fuel tank, and radiators.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:32 am
by SD80MAC
CN definitely does some creative accounting when it comes to their locomotives. IIRC one of the newer groups of ET44ACs has owned by "Grand Trunk Corporation" and operated by "Canadian National Railway" on the blue cards!
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:26 am
by GTW Dude
So does this mean that newer stuff like EJ&E and WC are under the Grand Trunk Corporation or are they there own entities?Come to think of it, does CN even own any of these lines or is it more like a long time lease?
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 12:10 pm
by AARR
Years ago I modeled each version of GTW's GP38-2's. It took some kit bashing but mostly very simple modifications. In addition to the differences you noted GTWChris also anti climbers where extended on the later (1977 and later) models.
GTWChris wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:09 pm
If you pay attention to the various GTW GP38-2s, you'll notice lots of small differences between them. The GTW GP38-2s you see today all came from multiple different railroads (GTW, DT&I, P&LE, RI, & MP). Differences you'll see are the length of the short hood, fuel tank, and radiators.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:27 pm
by Standard Railfan
GTW Dude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:26 am
So does this mean that newer stuff like EJ&E and WC are under the Grand Trunk Corporation or are they there own entities?Come to think of it, does CN even own any of these lines or is it more like a long time lease?
As of February 2021, Canadian National Railway Company owns the following subsidiaries:
North American Railways, Inc.
Grand Trunk Corporation
Grand Trunk Western Railroad Company
Illinois Central Corporation
Illinois Central Railroad Company
Wisconsin Central Ltd.
What railroads (ie. EJ&E, SSAM ) are owned by which of these corporations I haven’t discerned.
Railroad ownership is typically a complex weave of companies owing to past acquisitions,mergers, and control of related businesses. For instance in 1952 the Pennsylvania Railroad had interests in over 180 companies. Some like the Grand Rapids & Indiana were railroads. Others were leasing companies that leased motor vehicles, held real estate or operated pipelines.
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:12 am
by GP9R
Standard Railfan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:27 pm
GTW Dude wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:26 am
So does this mean that newer stuff like EJ&E and WC are under the Grand Trunk Corporation or are they there own entities?Come to think of it, does CN even own any of these lines or is it more like a long time lease?
As of February 2021, Canadian National Railway Company owns the following subsidiaries:
North American Railways, Inc.
Grand Trunk Corporation
Grand Trunk Western Railroad Company
Illinois Central Corporation
Illinois Central Railroad Company
Wisconsin Central Ltd.
What railroads (ie. EJ&E, SSAM ) are owned by which of these corporations I haven’t discerned.
Railroad ownership is typically a complex weave of companies owing to past acquisitions,mergers, and control of related businesses. For instance in 1952 the Pennsylvania Railroad had interests in over 180 companies. Some like the Grand Rapids & Indiana were railroads. Others were leasing companies that leased motor vehicles, held real estate or operated pipelines.
I can't speak for SSAM, Algoma Central, but EJ&E Railroad does not exsist anymore, there are no more Union contracts for EJ&E. During the labor dispute between CN and the EJ&E the courts ruled in favor the CN and allowed the CN to eliminate the EJ&E. All EJ&E property and employees became part of the WC
As far as the stuff on bluecards, On various new Gevos I have seen "Owned by" CN, IC, GTW, and WC, all are "Operated by" CN and their official number is CN XXXX
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:18 pm
by GTW6401
Going to be a pair of SD60s for now,. 5407 and 5469
Re: New Local Engine in Pontiac!!
Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:00 pm
by Steve B
And on some maintenance trucks you see "Operated by Grand Trunk Western" (or whichever subsidiary) on the cab door.