Plymouth Sub Signal Update Thread

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Saturnalia
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Plymouth Sub Signal Update Thread

Unread post by Saturnalia »

Probably about the time to start this thread up as it appears CSX has begun to replace some searchlights. Does not sound like a who lot of action, but it sounds like it might be up next after the GR & GRT subs are done. At any rate, treat the tread like it's GR-sub equivalent. Feel free to post crossing signal changes, too as they come in.

Quote from the Train Location Updates, 11-6-13:
BL2-1843 wrote:G676 was stopped under I-96 due to a signal suspension at Latson Road today as they were tieing in the new east and westsbound signals at MP 50.6, plus I believe perhaps activating the new crossing protection for the soon to open major Latson Road thoroughfare.
If anyone is in that area and can get a view and/or picture, reporting the number of heads in each direction, that would be great!
Last edited by Saturnalia on Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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firemedic54
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

Unread post by firemedic54 »

I will be rotating stations this weekend and will be at our Genoa Twp. station starting Sunday. It's just to the north of the freeway near Latson Rd. I will try to get by there and see what I can see.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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I know there was a thread from back in the day when they did the Seymour to EE Lake O cut over that might interest you.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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amtrak1007 wrote:I know there was a thread from back in the day when they did the Seymour to EE Lake O cut over that might interest you.
I found it awhile back and read it...it isn't in my notes...I'll go find it!
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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MQT3001 wrote:
amtrak1007 wrote:I know there was a thread from back in the day when they did the Seymour to EE Lake O cut over that might interest you.
I found it awhile back and read it...it isn't in my notes...I'll go find it!
Nope, cannot find it. Running low on time tonight...so perhaps tomorrow.
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

Unread post by firemedic54 »

Well we were able to drive just north of 96 near Latson Rd. from our station. As I looked south at the crossing it looks like they've installed new overhead signals and possibly crossing gates. I couldn't tell due to limited light. The searchlight signals I believe were replaced by 3 head LED's but again couldn't quite see. I will try to confirm either in the morning on my way home from work or when I return on Tuesday.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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there might not be much left to this post. csx has applied to remove the signals on the Plymouth sub to save money. talked to one of the head signal guy and he thought it was a long shot.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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rob wrote:there might not be much left to this post. csx has applied to remove the signals on the Plymouth sub to save money. talked to one of the head signal guy and he thought it was a long shot.

Rob
I guess then it would be the Signal Removal on the Plymouth Sub thread :(

I can see where they are coming from. With only 4 trains per day max over any one section of track, and at best two meets per day, they could probably remove half the sidings and all the signals. No real hope for the future either.

EDIT: Uh oh. Looks like CSX is hedging their bets! Just got a photo sent to me of the new signals, and there are TWO MASTS. As you may know, they always mount Safetrans on the same mast where applicable, so this is very interesting. Eastbound one head, westbound two. Interestingly, sounds like they may have wired them right up to the old system.
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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MQT3001 wrote: EDIT: Uh oh. Looks like CSX is hedging their bets! Just got a photo sent to me of the new signals, and there are TWO MASTS. As you may know, they always mount Safetrans on the same mast where applicable, so this is very interesting. Eastbound one head, westbound two. Interestingly, sounds like they may have wired them right up to the old system.
Sounds like a quick replacement project rather than 'new' signals. Old ones may have suffered a failure, either electrical or structural, and needed to be replaced ASAP.

With the coming of PTC, and how anal the FRA is about additional layers of protection, it will be really tough for any railroad to abandon a signal system. That usually takes years to get permission to turn the lights off. Even the Hoosier Sub in Southern Indiana, which hasn't seen a through movement in years, is still required to have the signals on and tested. CSX filed to suspend service, but hasn't been granted permission to abandon the line. There has even been a bridge fire (arson) and storage cars were set loose, but yet the signals have to remain on.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

Unread post by amtrak1007 »

CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote: EDIT: Uh oh. Looks like CSX is hedging their bets! Just got a photo sent to me of the new signals, and there are TWO MASTS. As you may know, they always mount Safetrans on the same mast where applicable, so this is very interesting. Eastbound one head, westbound two. Interestingly, sounds like they may have wired them right up to the old system.
Sounds like a quick replacement project rather than 'new' signals. Old ones may have suffered a failure, either electrical or structural, and needed to be replaced ASAP.

With the coming of PTC, and how anal the FRA is about additional layers of protection, it will be really tough for any railroad to abandon a signal system. That usually takes years to get permission to turn the lights off. Even the Hoosier Sub in Southern Indiana, which hasn't seen a through movement in years, is still required to have the signals on and tested. CSX filed to suspend service, but hasn't been granted permission to abandon the line. There has even been a bridge fire (arson) and storage cars were set loose, but yet the signals have to remain on.

Practice Safe CSX

I had thought that with PTC requirements and such it would be more difficult to remove the signals or reduce from CTC to ABS... I guess if you wanna wait for Godot to approve your request then by all means... LOL

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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Can someone post a link to the "old" Plymouth Sub link? I couldn't find it either.
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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Back when there was good information on this site and everybody wasn't posting random crap to put people down...
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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CSX_CO wrote:
MQT3001 wrote: EDIT: Uh oh. Looks like CSX is hedging their bets! Just got a photo sent to me of the new signals, and there are TWO MASTS. As you may know, they always mount Safetrans on the same mast where applicable, so this is very interesting. Eastbound one head, westbound two. Interestingly, sounds like they may have wired them right up to the old system.
Sounds like a quick replacement project rather than 'new' signals. Old ones may have suffered a failure, either electrical or structural, and needed to be replaced ASAP.
The new signals at MP 50.6 east of Howell were replaced because they had to be moved 30 feet east of the old ones. With the new Latson Road being built, and is now five lanes at the crossing instead of two, the old signals were praactically at the very edge of the new crossing.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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BL2-1843 wrote: The new signals at MP 50.6 east of Howell were replaced because they had to be moved 30 feet east of the old ones. With the new Latson Road being built, and is now five lanes at the crossing instead of two, the old signals were praactically at the very edge of the new crossing.
Well there ya go. Did the same in Indy at CP Holt. Replaced the WAS PRR mast with a Safetran signal, and moved it back 15 feet or so. They did bridge work on the overhead bridge, and widened it, so the signal had to be moved back east a bit.

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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CSX seeks approval of the proposed discontinuance of the traffic control system (TCS) on main tracks between Control Point (CP) Beck, Milepost (MP) CH-27.0 and CP Seymour, MP CH-148.17, on the Chicago Division, Plymouth Subdivision, Plymouth, MI. A total of 51 controlled signals and 58 automatic signals will be removed, with 11 power-operated switches converted to hand operation. Approach signals will be installed at MPs CH-29.0, CH-53.8, CH-50.9, CH-86.5, CH-83.6, and CH-147.4. CSX Rule 261 will be replaced and operation will be under Form D Control System and track warrant control rules. There are two locations that will remain as TCS, with signals and power-operated switches remaining in operation. Those locations are at Ann Pere, MP CH-52.87, at a grade crossing with the Great Lakes Central Railroad, and W.E. Trowbridge, MP CH-84.9, at a grade crossing with the Grand Trunk Western Railroad. These locations will continue to be operated under CSX Rule CPS-261.
Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... nal-system
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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railohio wrote:
CSX seeks approval of the proposed discontinuance of the traffic control system (TCS) on main tracks between Control Point (CP) Beck, Milepost (MP) CH-27.0 and CP Seymour, MP CH-148.17, on the Chicago Division, Plymouth Subdivision, Plymouth, MI. A total of 51 controlled signals and 58 automatic signals will be removed, with 11 power-operated switches converted to hand operation. Approach signals will be installed at MPs CH-29.0, CH-53.8, CH-50.9, CH-86.5, CH-83.6, and CH-147.4. CSX Rule 261 will be replaced and operation will be under Form D Control System and track warrant control rules. There are two locations that will remain as TCS, with signals and power-operated switches remaining in operation. Those locations are at Ann Pere, MP CH-52.87, at a grade crossing with the Great Lakes Central Railroad, and W.E. Trowbridge, MP CH-84.9, at a grade crossing with the Grand Trunk Western Railroad. These locations will continue to be operated under CSX Rule CPS-261.
Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... nal-system
I'm kinda of shocked they're trying to pull Lake Odessa to Seymour, but mostly Fox. Converting Fox to hand-throw could be a detriment to traffic, so trains will often meet there, and trains will often run-around Y106 on the main while they are switching. Also surprised they want to pull Ensel to MA, as those are new Safetrans with 261 rules as well. But I suppose it is sucking up maintainer dollars...but they are not totally unused.

Now if they did remove the signals, would they just run EC1s or do back to a Block-by-block authority system?
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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

Unread post by MSchwiebert »

If approved, it'll certainly use EC1's, it's a more flexible system than the old absolute blocks.

MQT3001 wrote:
railohio wrote:
CSX seeks approval of the proposed discontinuance of the traffic control system (TCS) on main tracks between Control Point (CP) Beck, Milepost (MP) CH-27.0 and CP Seymour, MP CH-148.17, on the Chicago Division, Plymouth Subdivision, Plymouth, MI. A total of 51 controlled signals and 58 automatic signals will be removed, with 11 power-operated switches converted to hand operation. Approach signals will be installed at MPs CH-29.0, CH-53.8, CH-50.9, CH-86.5, CH-83.6, and CH-147.4. CSX Rule 261 will be replaced and operation will be under Form D Control System and track warrant control rules. There are two locations that will remain as TCS, with signals and power-operated switches remaining in operation. Those locations are at Ann Pere, MP CH-52.87, at a grade crossing with the Great Lakes Central Railroad, and W.E. Trowbridge, MP CH-84.9, at a grade crossing with the Grand Trunk Western Railroad. These locations will continue to be operated under CSX Rule CPS-261.
Source: https://www.federalregister.gov/article ... nal-system
I'm kinda of shocked they're trying to pull Lake Odessa to Seymour, but mostly Fox. Converting Fox to hand-throw could be a detriment to traffic, so trains will often meet there, and trains will often run-around Y106 on the main while they are switching. Also surprised they want to pull Ensel to MA, as those are new Safetrans with 261 rules as well. But I suppose it is sucking up maintainer dollars...but they are not totally unused.

Now if they did remove the signals, would they just run EC1s or do back to a Block-by-block authority system?

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Re: New Signals on the Plymouth Sub

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Wow, I guess my source was wrong. Oh well... :roll:

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