Amtrak Crash

[sd70accsxt700]

No reason to lock it. It is perfectly on track, unlike the subject matter. Lots of hot air, with a little bit of truth, just how its supposed to be.

[amtrak1007]

Just like all railroaders and foamers.

[ConrailMan5]

I really have enjoyed this thread. I used to feel like it was always Adults v. Kids on here, with the adults seemingly bullying the youngsters.. Hearing what all of you have said has made me realize how wrong I am. You have reminded that there is no tone online, and that I have never met any of you in real life and know nothing about y'all. I have been that kid that reacts immaturely after being corrected (sometimes scolded) by the older members, but now I realize it is nothing personal. The purpose of the corrections is to learn ( or teach) from a mistake. I have a new found respect for some of the members on this site. Thank you all for that
All of this bickering and drama makes it difficult to enjoy this great hobby. In the end, take a step back and ask, "is it really worth in the end"?

Just my 2 cents

[bctrainfan]

OK, I will throw in my unsolicited $0.02, again

A) Some of you guys ARE sometimes too harsh with MQT and other young members.
B) MQT, and others, often DO put themselves in a position to be criticized.
C) As older more experienced people, we can, IMHO, correct and teach these cubbies in a more positive way. My god, they are young teens! What do you expect? They are eager, opinionated, and inexperienced! Of course they will be annoying sometimes! We were all at that stage once to some extent, and I know alot of us have raised our own teens. Why should we be surprised when they get our dander up a little? They are still learning about both the subject matter, and about how to interact.
D) Don't underestimate the effect you can have on these lads. Especially you real RR guys! Your opinions, and what you say, and how you say it, probably carries a lot more weight with these kids than you realize. So try to keep that in mind. (For that matter, I really like all the "inside RR" info that we get on here, even stuff that may seem mundane or boring or obvious to you guys working in the business!)
E) And about MQT specifically, he appears to be a good kid, and seems more mature and intelligent than about 90% of the "adults" that I deal with everyday!

Now.... back to this PTC discussion. Obviously PTC is not directly related to this crash. I think it was brought up because some people tout PTC as the end-all be-all safety answer. No system is perfect though, and this was an example of an incident where PTC would not have prevented anything, because the system was compromised. The question is not whether PTC is effective in preventing most collisions, it clearly would. But serious collisions are already quite rare given the huge amount of train movement. And the cost is pretty steep. So, as I said before, it really comes down to is a cost/benefit analysis, and maybe a discussion of whether the proposed system is the most effective option.

[hoborich]

I'm calling BORING!

[Raildudes dad]

OK, I will throw in my unsolicited $0.02, again

A) Some of you guys ARE sometimes too harsh with MQT and other young members.
B) MQT, and others, often DO put themselves in a position to be criticized.
C) As older more experienced people, we can, IMHO, correct and teach these cubbies in a more positive way. My god, they are young teens! What do you expect? They are eager, opinionated, and inexperienced! Of course they will be annoying sometimes! We were all at that stage once to some extent, and I know alot of us have raised our own teens. Why should we be surprised when they get our dander up a little? They are still learning about both the subject matter, and about how to interact.
D) Don't underestimate the effect you can have on these lads. Especially you real RR guys! Your opinions, and what you say, and how you say it, probably carries a lot more weight with these kids than you realize. So try to keep that in mind. (For that matter, I really like all the "inside RR" info that we get on here, even stuff that may seem mundane or boring or obvious to you guys working in the business!)
E) And about MQT specifically, he appears to be a good kid, and seems more mature and intelligent than about 90% of the "adults" that I deal with everyday!

Now.... back to this PTC discussion. Obviously PTC is not directly related to this crash. I think it was brought up because some people tout PTC as the end-all be-all safety answer. No system is perfect though, and this was an example of an incident where PTC would not have prevented anything, because the system was compromised. The question is not whether PTC is effective in preventing most collisions, it clearly would. But serious collisions are already quite rare given the huge amount of train movement. And the cost is pretty steep. So, as I said before, it really comes down to is a cost/benefit analysis, and maybe a discussion of whether the proposed system is the most effective option.

Well said. Take the opportunity to mentor the younger members via PM with a little positive corrective critique not criticism.

We had a poster on this board that was a victim of bullying that ended very tragically. Pretty sure it didn't have anything to do with posts on the board but we don't need that type of activity here.

I read the NTSB report. It sure looks like a signal employee screwed up to me, plain and simple.

My problem with some NTSB recommendations are belt and suspenders solutions wihout regard to cost. There will always be accidents. The balancing act is cost of prevention vs probability. Like Valerie Harper said recently, we all die eventually. If you haven't seen her interviews after she received her terminal cancer diagnosis, you need to. The woman is strong.

[AARR]

C) As older more experienced people, we can, IMHO, correct and teach these cubbies in a more positive way. My god, they are young teens! What do you expect? They are eager, opinionated, and inexperienced! Of course they will be annoying sometimes! We were all at that stage once to some extent, and I know alot of us have raised our own teens. Why should we be surprised when they get our dander up a little? They are still learning about both the subject matter, and about how to interact.

Well said. Take the opportunity to mentor the younger members via PM with a little positive corrective critique not criticism.

Learning...its not just for kids you know (Im an old fart in training per Pat C Dok, Raildude's Dad, sd70, Mr TSB, and others answered many of my "dumb" questions (and still do) when I joined some 5,6 or whatever years ago. They never insulted or were rude to me, ever. I try to be patient like them with the younger members.

There can't be a really good discussion unless someone takes the opposing point of view (devil's advocate). When we had the Politics, Religion and Extreme board I often took the other point of view on topics to make it interesting. IMO debates/discussions are more interesting when kept friendly

[sd70accsxt700]

OK, I will throw in my unsolicited $0.02, again

A) Some of you guys ARE sometimes too harsh with MQT and other young members.
B) MQT, and others, often DO put themselves in a position to be criticized.
C) As older more experienced people, we can, IMHO, correct and teach these cubbies in a more positive way. My god, they are young teens! What do you expect? They are eager, opinionated, and inexperienced! Of course they will be annoying sometimes! We were all at that stage once to some extent, and I know alot of us have raised our own teens. Why should we be surprised when they get our dander up a little? They are still learning about both the subject matter, and about how to interact.
D) Don't underestimate the effect you can have on these lads. Especially you real RR guys! Your opinions, and what you say, and how you say it, probably carries a lot more weight with these kids than you realize. So try to keep that in mind. (For that matter, I really like all the "inside RR" info that we get on here, even stuff that may seem mundane or boring or obvious to you guys working in the business!)
E) And about MQT specifically, he appears to be a good kid, and seems more mature and intelligent than about 90% of the "adults" that I deal with everyday!

Now.... back to this PTC discussion. Obviously PTC is not directly related to this crash. I think it was brought up because some people tout PTC as the end-all be-all safety answer. No system is perfect though, and this was an example of an incident where PTC would not have prevented anything, because the system was compromised. The question is not whether PTC is effective in preventing most collisions, it clearly would. But serious collisions are already quite rare given the huge amount of train movement. And the cost is pretty steep. So, as I said before, it really comes down to is a cost/benefit analysis, and maybe a discussion of whether the proposed system is the most effective option.

Well said. Take the opportunity to mentor the younger members via PM with a little positive corrective critique not criticism.

We had a poster on this board that was a victim of bullying that ended very tragically. Pretty sure it didn't have anything to do with posts on the board but we don't need that type of activity here.

All very well said, by both people. It was about 9 months ago, I took a stand to quit all the little BS, pot shots, bullying, ect, but all it got me was temporary ban, and was told that I was the problem and it would all be better with out me. I was also told that there is NO problem like that AT ALL on this board, and NOTHING at ALL needed to done about it. It looks to me like I wasnt so full of crap.

[CAT345C]

WRONG ^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Clay320]

..and here's why,

[MagnumForce]

No, Matt will tell you that you are wrong, but not why.

I still have yet to see any bullying in this thread, I don't care the age. No one is being uncivil, arguments can be heated and not turn personal. How boring it would be if we were all happy little, overly moderated minions who all loved each other and agreed with everything everyone else said.

[CAT345C]

Before I get harassed my comment I Matt was an inside joke from the other day.

[TrainWatcher]

No, Matt will tell you that you are wrong, but not why.

I still have yet to see any bullying in this thread, I don't care the age. No one is being uncivil, arguments can be heated and not turn personal. How boring it would be if we were all happy little, overly moderated minions who all loved each other and agreed with everything everyone else said.

I am going to agree, as one who posts dumb questions (quite often) and as many of you know me I am VERY upbeat and energetic individual, I feel that young members post questions, that when answers are received they continue on their point (such as in Alex's case of PTC and saying the PTC had to be faulty and it is a bad system, and here's why... etc.), instead of taking supplied information provided by the rest of the forum members and learning and using said knowledge in future postings and dropping the issue. I have had my share of this board's learning curve (such as not asking every 15 minutes where train XYZ is) and took knowledge supplied by members to learn and enhance my knowledge of railroading from an outsider's perspective.

While I understand the young members views, those of us who have some or more experience than these young members, feel it is inappropriate to continue on a topic for no reason. Like I can say that the Galveston Museum ATSF F7's are crap till the cows come home, but my viewpoint is not shared by others. I have had to learn to shut up, sit back, and look at it from another POV and not just my own, and I believe it is time for those individuals to begin to accept that concept.

[J T]

Like I can say that the Galveston Museum ATSF F7's are crap till the cows come home, but my viewpoint is not shared by others.

That's because your viewpoint is wrong.

[Racer]

Like I can say that the Galveston Museum ATSF F7's are crap till the cows come home, but my viewpoint is not shared by others.

That's because your viewpoint is wrong.

No, no, NO! This will not happen on this thread! I don't want this thread to be locked anymore. The last page of posts have been entertaining.

[CAT345C]

Those ATSF f units are classy I want to set up a photo shoot with the owners!

[hoborich]

Those Santa Fe F units look like crap.

[MagnumForce]

I think they look ridiculous, but they aren't mine and I don't complain about it constantly.

[Old Hogger]

I think they look pretty sharp and I'd love to get a chance to run 'em.

[J T]

I think they look ridiculous, but they aren't mine and I don't complain about it constantly.

But you hate bulldogs anyway.