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Jetlink wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:19 pm

There is a sign visible to eastbound trains at Onieda road now. Onieda is the first road crossing just to the west of the City Limits of Grand Ledge. You can also see it from the public grade crossing. I took a cell phone photo of it but struggle to get photo's uploaded on this site from my phone. The code line poles area still standing here but the wires and line are in shambles just hanging and not connected. Any way the sign says:

Entering
Signal Rules
1281-1291
Leaving
Signal Rules
C-1281 - C-1298
Leaving
Signal Rules
TWC - ABS

Got ya here. Took this myself on the 5th

I too got a look at the sign. Is it there permanently?

David Collins wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:54 am

I too got a look at the sign. Is it there permanently?

It will be here until additional signal work takes place moving or eliminating the location where the signal rules change from Chessie to CSX standard.

Semi related- despite having the more modern safetrans type equipment at Ensel, North Lansing and MA, I believe it is (was?) all still using Chessie rules. I wonder how long that will last?

GP30M4216 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 12, 2024 12:03 pm

David Collins wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:54 am

I too got a look at the sign. Is it there permanently?

It will be here until additional signal work takes place moving or eliminating the location where the signal rules change from Chessie to CSX standard.

Semi related- despite having the more modern safetrans type equipment at Ensel, North Lansing and MA, I believe it is (was?) all still using Chessie rules. I wonder how long that will last?

I would guess when the rest of the signals are done, Ensel to MA will be converted to Seaboard rules.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:44 am

Per a bulletin issued by CSX on February 5, the following signals are retired and removed from service: CH 105.2, CH 101.2, CH 99.2, CH 97.8, and CH 95.1. New eastward and westward color light intermediate signals are in service at the following locations: CH 104.3, CH 97.8, and CH 94.2. New eastward and westward absolute signals are in service at NEW control point GRAND LEDGE HOLDOUT at CH 100.8.

The new 94.2 intermediate signal is located at the Ingersoll Road crossing, to the immediate west of the pavement, with a single head facing each direction. I wondered if this relocation might be the case as the previous intermediate located closer to the I-96 bridges was difficult to access.

Signal changes have taken place at Ensel. The Main 1 WAS searchlight signal is gone, as reported elsewhere, replaced with a safetrans installation. The lower head of the EAS is a new signal head, as is the WAS on Main 2. Upper heads are not changed at this time.

Expect the signals to be typically located at easy to reach locations like at grade crossings. Ain’t nobody got time to hyrail or walk to this stuff!

Saturnalia wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 13, 2024 12:22 pm

Expect the signals to be typically located at easy to reach locations like at grade crossings. Ain’t nobody got time to hyrail or walk to this stuff!

Sometimes railroad logic actually makes some sense.

Things to note as I chased 303 today and did some reconnaissance at some of the new locations.

There is a pair of new signals at Lawson Rd (100.77?). Both masts have two heads, three aspects on the upper and two on the bottom. The relay case said “Grand Ledge Holdout”. What is the purpose of this signal when there isn’t a control point? I can understand why you’d need at EB holdout but why a WB?

Also, there are no signals at the west end of the siding in Grand Ledge still but the new bungalow is installed and there are two brand new powered switch machines installed, with the one on the siding towards the Grand Ledge Industrial Track having a hand throw option. This to me would indicate that CSX is going to make this a proper control point for meets. The old hand throws are in a pile by the warehouse across the ROW. Making Grand Ledge a siding to conduct meets would make sense since Sunfield is no more.

The East end of Grand Ledge has a new signal up but it’s currently just one head on a single mast facing each direction like the new set up at the DD (104.3) at Mulliken. Not sure if this is a temporary setup or if they plan on putting up additional masts once the signals at the west end are done. Whenever I’ve seen control points on CSX they have a signal for each track with heads facing either direction, but this looks more like an intermediate signal style set up.

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:05 pm

There is a pair of new signals at Lawson Rd (100.77?). Both masts have two heads, three aspects on the upper and two on the bottom. The relay case said “Grand Ledge Holdout”. What is the purpose of this signal when there isn’t a control point? I can understand why you’d need at EB holdout but why a WB?

By your description, it is now a control point.
It now joins the CN signals at Lawson on the Flint Sub and Raven on the Holly Sub.

DaveO wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:25 pm

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:05 pm

There is a pair of new signals at Lawson Rd (100.77?). Both masts have two heads, three aspects on the upper and two on the bottom. The relay case said “Grand Ledge Holdout”. What is the purpose of this signal when there isn’t a control point? I can understand why you’d need at EB holdout but why a WB?

By your description, it is now a control point.
It now joins the CN signals at Lawson on the Flint Sub and Raven on the Holly Sub.

What does CN have to do with any of this???

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:29 pm

DaveO wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:25 pm

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:05 pm

There is a pair of new signals at Lawson Rd (100.77?). Both masts have two heads, three aspects on the upper and two on the bottom. The relay case said “Grand Ledge Holdout”. What is the purpose of this signal when there isn’t a control point? I can understand why you’d need at EB holdout but why a WB?

By your description, it is now a control point.
It now joins the CN signals at Lawson on the Flint Sub and Raven on the Holly Sub.

What does CN have to do with any of this???

They are also hold-out signals. So not a new scenario in Michigan.

Not even a new scenario on CSX. Joy Holdout was an absolute in Michigan City for years.

Grand Ledge siding is no longer going to be designated as a siding in the timetable, it will just be an "other than main/yard" track, with hand throw switches. Expect either or just one end of the siding to have just an intermediate signal. The thinking behind putting an absolute signal west of town is that the dispatcher can hold an eastbound train there if a grain train or local is working.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:03 pm

Grand Ledge siding is no longer going to be designated as a siding in the timetable, it will just be an "other than main/yard" track, with hand throw switches. Expect either end of the siding to have just an intermediate signal. The thinking behind putting an absolute signal west of town is that the dispatcher can hold an eastbound train there if a grain train or local is working.

Does not appear there will be a signal on the east end of the siding.

I don't understand this move, since Grand Ledge is one of the biggest sidings between Seymour and Ensel that's still intact and yet its not set up for meets. I get that they don't happen on this part of the railroad much, but it seems like having the option would be nice. Maybe someone would put Sunfield back in one day?

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:07 pm

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:03 pm

Grand Ledge siding is no longer going to be designated as a siding in the timetable, it will just be an "other than main/yard" track, with hand throw switches. Expect either end of the siding to have just an intermediate signal. The thinking behind putting an absolute signal west of town is that the dispatcher can hold an eastbound train there if a grain train or local is working.

Does not appear there will be a signal on the east end of the siding.

I don't understand this move, since Grand Ledge is one of the biggest sidings between Seymour and Ensel that's still intact and yet its not set up for meets. I get that they don't happen on this part of the railroad much, but it seems like having the option would be nice. Maybe someone would put Sunfield back in one day?

I mean, it’s still THERE. Not ripped out. So meets COULD happen. They just don’t need the infrastructure for conducting multiple meets for the 3 (MAYBE 4) trains that go thru there in a 24 hour period.

Correct, there's nothing that says the siding can't still be used for meets. T&E wanted power switches but engineering did not, and engineering won.

Pictures are going around of new conduit installed at WE Williamston which is similar to those I took pictures of in Grand Ledge last fall. Multiple runs of orange flexible conduit stick out near the WAS for the main track, and a single conduit sticks out on the other side of the tracks. If you look closely at the WE bungalow in the distance, it looks like two others stick out of the ground. Comments on the Facebook post mention a fiber buildout in town, but the proximity to the tracks makes me think otherwise. https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=767 ... 8785558784 I will take some pictures myself when I pass through the area next.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 04, 2024 9:22 am

Not even a new scenario on CSX. Joy Holdout was an absolute in Michigan City for years.

Although obviously not installed by CSX, we had absolute "hold out" signals in several places: Scottville; just east of Baldwin (so a train like ML18 didn't have to run restricted speed for several miles toward Olivers), Blocks 1-2-3 at Midland-Dean, Grand Blanc (prior to the siding getting power switches and new signals), N. Holly, S. Holly and 7 Mile Road north of Plymouth. Remember though, don't make a meet at any one of them!!

I was in Williamston last week and saw that they were running conduit for new signals. This was the only spot that I saw this being done between there and Howell. I wanna make another trip up there next month and will post any updates.

Is any tie work happening on the Plymouth, or are all the ties going to the GR sub side?