RailRoadFan.com

Standard Railfan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:05 am

chapmaja wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 12:57 am

atrainguy60 wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:58 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC GLC runs two local turns on their line between Cadillac and Owosso, with them meeting in Clare and swapping trains before returning to their respective terminals. Could something similar happen between Owosso and Toledo? Maybe have a southbound out of Owosso and a northbound out of Toledo and they meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps Osmer?

That is exactly what I would expect to have happen. The OSTN and TNTN (Toledo North Turn) would meet in Osmer and swap trains.

So in other words, this fantasy merger that will not happen would not really change anything.

I recall being told by Ann Arbor RR employees in the 1960s that the AA ran almost like to separate railroads. The east end, Owosso to Toledo, made a $4MM profit and the west end, Owosso to Elberta, lost $6MM.

How much of the losses on the west (north) end of the railroad were directly attributed to the ferry operation which no longer exists?

Also, in regard to it not really changing anything, there is one additional potential situation it may change. How much would traffic going to NS from the HESR be inpacted. Currently HESR traffic from NS would require three different railroads in most cases to get from Toledo to the HESR. Traffic could either go NS-AA-GLC-HESR or NS-CSX-LSRC-HESR. The only more direct routing would be NS-CN-HESR and I don't think CN is really trying to work that business. By merging the AA-GLC that would eliminate one railroad from routing and potentially lower shipping costs, thus potentially providing additional revenue to the merged line in terms increased potential traffic flow.

Steve B wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:55 am

Chip wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:07 am

That’s… that’s not how you run a successful business. No wonder they folded.

Are you familiar with the Interstate Commerce Commission and the stranglehold of pre-1980 regulation?

The AA did get ICC approval to abandon the Manistique and Menominee runs. But that wasn't sufficient to regain profitability, and the good-faith ferry repowering & clearance improvement efforts weren't enough either.

If the Ann Arbor's June 1972 application to abandon the Manitowoc & Kewaunee ferry lines, plus Thompsonville to Frankfort had been approved by the sclerotic ICC, it would have had a chance to become a successful business again. The abandonment hearings dragged on interminably and the AA went bankrupt in Oct. 1973.

Yeah, the ICC was everything wrong with government bureaucracy. Had they been quicker to do literally anything, Rock Island could have had a better chance at survival too.

Chip wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 2:00 pm

Steve B wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:55 am

Chip wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 9:07 am

That’s… that’s not how you run a successful business. No wonder they folded.

Are you familiar with the Interstate Commerce Commission and the stranglehold of pre-1980 regulation?

The AA did get ICC approval to abandon the Manistique and Menominee runs. But that wasn't sufficient to regain profitability, and the good-faith ferry repowering & clearance improvement efforts weren't enough either.

If the Ann Arbor's June 1972 application to abandon the Manitowoc & Kewaunee ferry lines, plus Thompsonville to Frankfort had been approved by the sclerotic ICC, it would have had a chance to become a successful business again. The abandonment hearings dragged on interminably and the AA went bankrupt in Oct. 1973.

Yeah, the ICC was everything wrong with government bureaucracy. Had they been quicker to do literally anything, Rock Island could have had a better chance at survival too.

lmao rock island

chapmaja wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:20 pm

If the GLC and AA were to merger, how would this change the operations of the railroads?

You first have to consider why they would merge. Why would determine the what.

The obvious one would be to that no more interchange at Osmer. What would happen with the small yard there? Remove it or use it for storage? Given how the current arrangement is versus when the old Annie was around, makes me wonder how much time is gained for a car going north or south on the former Annie by sitting at Osmer.

Osmer still might be used for the Toledo North Turn and Owosso South Turn to exchange trains

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:14 pm

The obvious one would be to that no more interchange at Osmer. What would happen with the small yard there? Remove it or use it for storage? Given how the current arrangement is versus when the old Annie was around, makes me wonder how much time is gained for a car going north or south on the former Annie by sitting at Osmer.

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 21, 2023 7:14 pm

The obvious one would be to that no more interchange at Osmer. What would happen with the small yard there? Remove it or use it for storage? Given how the current arrangement is versus when the old Annie was around, makes me wonder how much time is gained for a car going north or south on the former Annie by sitting at Osmer.

I could be wrong, but at one time I thought the TSBY used to schedule their trains in order to get the cars from the AA interchange to the north end in the following manner.

AA would drop cars at Osmer overnight. TSBY day crew would pick up cars and take to Owosso, the night crew from Owosso would take said cars north and meet the Cadillac south crew who would take the cars to Cadillac and then from their to the destination on the next crew (day or night) from Cadillac. The goal as I recalled it was 48 hours from pickup in AA to being dropped at the customer.