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The way I see it NS will probably never use the Michigan Line for through freight. For a few reasons.
First the Wabash line is no where near maxed out so if there was an influx of traffic, trains could run Detroit-Fort Wayne-Chicago or vis versa.
Second AML sucks at moving trains. All they care about is their own trains so if NS tried to run any, they would have to be mostly at night as day time trains would spend a lot of time in sidings waiting for Amtrak to clear.
Thirdly is NS seems to not want the line. They continue to reduce the number of trains and crews that work the Michigan line. They tried to sell it all in 08/09 and rumor is they are looking to try again to sell part of it.

A few points to make here regarding CSXBOY's original post.

From a railfan perspective, yes I too have wondered why we cannot get just a small portion of trucks off I-94 and run intermodal between Detroit and Chicago, but we need to consider many other factors than just from the railfan perspective (even just from a "let's get trucks off I-94" perspective). Please see the following:

As pointed out already, any freight between Detroit and Porter on the Amtrak Michigan Line would have to contend with Amtrak. Amtrak would take priority and freight trains would have to wait unless they were run at night, but lets just say for the sake of argument that there were no Amtrak trains at all. Now go with me here for a minute..."Would the Michigan Line be used for Detroit-Chicago Intermodal"? (Let's limit this discussion to just that because other scenarios with no Amtrak such as other freight, CP across the Michigan Line, etc. would incur completely different discussions). So the answer to the question "Would the Michigan Line be used for Detroit-Chicago Intermodal", even with Amtrak complete out of the picture is still NO and here is why. Intermodal is viable, effective, and profitable with the long haul, not the short haul. If you consider a truck running Detroit to Chicago on I-94, he might make it in 5 to 6 hours. If you take that same truck and roll it into an Intermodal yard in Detroit, load it onto a railcar, leave Detroit on a train, unload it in Chicago, and run it to its destination, now we are talking (probably at best with all the proper logistics in place) 12-18 hours at least if not more. Now obviously certain efficiencies are realized with I/M - you can run 200 car double stack trains these days now taking 400 trucks off the highway in one shot, thus creating less pollution and not having to pay 400 truck drivers, but its just not viable in terms of the short distance and almost no profit margin for the railroad.

A few other problems with Detroit-Chicago Michigan Line I/M is Double Stack clearance (don't remember the location at the moment) and bottlenecks at Porter. "If" there were no Double Stack clearance issues and "If" the Michigan Line continued on its own to Chicago without having to get on and off at Porter, that would be better, but I still doubt it for the reasons I already mentioned and remember this argument, again is based on no Amtrak. One other thing to consider is not all trucks on I-94 are Detroit-Chicago trucks - remember every town and city in between are origins and destinations for trucks, including trucks not originating/terminating in Detroit and Chicago.

Trust me - every time I drive I-94 I cringe with how many trucks there are and as you get close to Chicago, there "seem" to be times and places where there are just as many (if not more) trucks than cars, but unless and until there is enough public outcry on the situation, it will remain the same. Even with public outcry, the solution will be more lanes on I-94, but unfortunately in this particular case, the railroad will not come to the rescue, at least not in the form of Michigan Line utilization. (One thing to note with more lanes on I-94, this too is not an easy and quick solution. While I am not a Civil Engineer, the more time I do spend in Engineering, the more I have come to realize that everything takes time. More lanes = Engineering and planning, Environmental impacts and studies if applicable, more planning, funding availability, approvals, construction company bids, all necessary preliminary work including bridge widening/replacement, relocation of other physical infrastructure, utility relocation, drainage (a big one in Civil Engineering), etc. all BEFORE more lanes are even added and that's just to name a few).

I think in general, as the public becomes more aware of the fact that there are efficiencies with I/M (i.e., 400 trucks on one train, less pollution - big these days in some political circles, 400 less truck drivers needed for that particular haul - which does help with current driver shortages), I/M will continue to grow, but only when its viable and profitable for the railroad. Other than that, its business as usual.

David Lang

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:03 am

Thirdly is NS seems to not want the line. They continue to reduce the number of trains and crews that work the Michigan line. They tried to sell it all in 08/09 and rumor is they are looking to try again to sell part of it.

By sell, do you mean "sell" the freight contract?

The main point is that railroads are not competitive or interested in the short haul and the Michigan line is not in logistical position for the long.

Supposedly a few years ago NS approached Amtrak and Michigan about running some unit steel trains between Burns Harbor and Detroit via the MI Line. They were told no.

Remembers how fast the GTW unit steel train went up the hill to Pontiac.
Walking pace accurately describes the speed.
Yea, I can understand them answering no.

GTW was notorious for underpowering its coal trains and struggling up that hill. IIRC at times they would send a crew from Pontiac to help.

DaveO wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:09 pm

Remembers how fast the GTW unit steel train went up the hill to Pontiac.
Walking pace accurately describes the speed.
Yea, I can understand them answering no.

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:57 am

JStryker722 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:58 pm

This was put in shortly after CP gained Detroit to Chicago trackage rights on NS in 2009.

Connection has been there since 2005...

NS purchased 0.14 acres of land @ the NW connector in 2005.

Whatever happened about that supposed deal that would've seen a new "Michigan Central" take over the freight operations on the Michigan Line? Wasn't Watco supposed to be the operator? Not sure if that was ever discussed elsewhere on here or not.

Why was the diamond at Porter taken out in the first place? Seems like now having a direct artery to the IHB would be a big win especially since CSX runs NOTHING on the Porter Branch.

We're lucky the Watco thing didn't happen. Probably would be 25 MPH freight/30 MPH passenger by now. Though maybe the state still would have ended up buying it.
2007 thread: http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=25526

The Porter diamond was taken out because there weren't any through freights west of Kalamazoo anymore, and it was costly to maintain. Especially in the days before one way low speed diamonds.

For 13 years the NS owned the line and could have run anything, but ultimately opted to cede control for a nice price, $140 million. I don't fault the state for prioritizing on its own property the passenger trains that it's paying Amtrak to run.

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:40 am

Supposedly a few years ago NS approached Amtrak and Michigan about running some unit steel trains between Burns Harbor and Detroit via the MI Line. They were told no.

MDOT and Amtrak don't want tonnage beating their high-speed line to pulp. The freight contracts now are for local service only essentially and Amtrak/MDOT have every reason in the world to keep it that way.

The only way I think we would ever see unit trains or increased freight traffic on this line would be if NS approached the state about putting in a freight line next to the existing mainline. The freight would remain on the freight track while passenger would remain on their tracks. Since that isn't going to happen, I don't see much in the way of traffic increases for the line.

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:42 pm

Whatever happened about that supposed deal that would've seen a new "Michigan Central" take over the freight operations on the Michigan Line? Wasn't Watco supposed to be the operator? Not sure if that was ever discussed elsewhere on here or not.

Union fought it, so only the line from GR to Elkhart was sold. Later ADBF bought the line from Jackson to Lansing.

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:51 am

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:42 pm

Whatever happened about that supposed deal that would've seen a new "Michigan Central" take over the freight operations on the Michigan Line? Wasn't Watco supposed to be the operator? Not sure if that was ever discussed elsewhere on here or not.

Union fought it, so only the line from GR to Elkhart was sold. Later ADBF bought the line from Jackson to Lansing.

I thought ADBF/JAIL had a 20 year lease with an option to purchase the line when the lease expires?

NS3322 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:25 am

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:51 am

MQT1223 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:42 pm

Whatever happened about that supposed deal that would've seen a new "Michigan Central" take over the freight operations on the Michigan Line? Wasn't Watco supposed to be the operator? Not sure if that was ever discussed elsewhere on here or not.

Union fought it, so only the line from GR to Elkhart was sold. Later ADBF bought the line from Jackson to Lansing.

I thought ADBF/JAIL had a 20 year lease with an option to purchase the line when the lease expires?

It’s a lease.

Yeah both are leases, but I highly doubt NS will want either line back.

Does NS have any yardmasters on the Michigan Line?
Andy

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:47 pm

Yeah both are leases, but I highly doubt NS will want either line back.

I get the impression that outside of the CSA lines they don't want to be in Michigan at all.

Does anyone know if Dowagiac will start getting service again? I noticed that the Ameriwood spur recently received new ballast and that they replaced some rails that split off from the spur and dead end between Judd Lumber and the Dowagiac train station. Ameriwood hasn’t received anything by rail in over 2 years now. Why ballast a spur that isn’t being used?

Chip wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:19 pm

1TrackMind wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:47 pm

Yeah both are leases, but I highly doubt NS will want either line back.

I get the impression that outside of the CSA lines they don't want to be in Michigan at all.

They haven't been marketing themselves in Michigan since around 2018 but they still have a good chunk of business. This board, in terms of TLHUs, primarily focuses on CSX and CN but NS runs a lot more freight through MI than is seen here.