GDLK Operations

[Dowagiac Train Dude]

RBEX is also the reporting marks for the stone cars used to transport the stone. That would indicate that the "new" engine is also owned by the same company, RBEX, Balkema Excavating.

Thank you for the info, I had never noticed the markings on the stone cars.

[Ben Higdon]

The Georgia Pacific paper mill at the east end of Botsford Yard was Kalamazoo Paper prior to that, and farther back it was the Botsford Paper Co.

[GP30M4216]

Seeing a Michigan-bound Grand Elk train pass by the Elkhart depot camera a little after 08:00 this morning prompted me to think of the following question:

Other than at CP Park and Cowling in Three Rivers, what, if any, Conrail era signals still stand along the Grand Elk line from there south to Elkhart. I know many have been replaced with new Safetrans installations.

Is there still an absolute signal guarding the MSO interchange track (Old Road) where it would enter the Elk mainline at US131 near White Pigeon?

And, at the opposite end of the line:

What Grand Elk job interchanges with the GRE in Grand Rapids? I’ve seen the Z439/ CSX interchange job go from Hughart to Wyoming and back again several times over the past few months and they never head north for Fuller. Is a GRE interchange just a rare move these days? Or is it a different Elk job/shift that heads up that way?

[SD80MAC]

For the GR side of things, I think normal practice is for the 1st shift yard job (GDLK 120, or Z439 on CSX) handle the CSX interchange and for the second shift job (221, Z739 on CSX) to go up to Fuller to work the transload and the GRE interchange. Not sure what 221's schedule has been recently, but in the past they would often head up there after CSX's Y297 was back in Wyoming Yard and sometimes even after Amtrak arrives.

[Andy24]

For the GR side of things, I think normal practice is for the 1st shift yard job (GDLK 120, or Z439 on CSX) handle the CSX interchange and for the second shift job (221, Z739 on CSX) to go up to Fuller to work the transload and the GRE interchange. Not sure what 221's schedule has been recently, but in the past they would often head up there after CSX's Y297 was back in Wyoming Yard and sometimes even after Amtrak arrives.

I’ve seen Z439 head north to Fuller a few times

[1TrackMind]

Couple passenger cars in GR, may head south this weekend.

[GP30M4216]

Seeing a Michigan-bound Grand Elk train pass by the Elkhart depot camera a little after 08:00 this morning prompted me to think of the following question:

Other than at CP Park and Cowling in Three Rivers, what, if any, Conrail era signals still stand along the Grand Elk line from there south to Elkhart. I know many have been replaced with new Safetrans installations.

Is there still an absolute signal guarding the MSO interchange track (Old Road) where it would enter the Elk mainline at US131 near White Pigeon?

Sometimes, you end up answering your own question! was recently in this territory and can report that the only Conrail era signals I saw remaining were the absolutes at Park and Cowling, and the intermediate at the old Diamond site at 4th Street. There is still an absolute dwarf signal at US-131 where the old road joins the Kalamazoo main, I didn’t inspect it closely but it did not look new and may be a searchlight. The intermediate at White Pigeon is a safetrans as is I believe everything west of there. There’s at least one or two intermediates between WP and Three Rivers but I don’t know if they are Safetrans or not.

I noted the Park and Cowling signals are all approach lit. Or, rather, the southbound signal at Park was lit to approach and everything else was dark long before a train was on the circuit. Who actually dispatched the signals on this portion from Park down to Elkhart? Does Grand Elk control them?

[1TrackMind]

Who actually dispatched the signals on this portion from Park down to Elkhart? Does Grand Elk control them?

Watco dispatches the line.

[justalurker66]

Watco petitioned the STB a few years ago for the removal of signals from Three Rivers south. The petition was denied. Watco ended up replacing all of the signals south of Three Rivers. I'm not sure why they didn't replace Park and Cowling. CP 99 became CP 1 When NS replaced the signal as part of their rebuild of CP 421 at the Elkhart train station. (The connection to the E&W was also changed at that time, moving the switch for the E&W to the east and outside of CP 421.)

[MQT1223]

Watco petitioned the STB a few years ago for the removal of signals from Three Rivers south. The petition was denied. Watco ended up replacing all of the signals south of Three Rivers. I'm not sure why they didn't replace Park and Cowling. CP 99 became CP 1 When NS replaced the signal as part of their rebuild of CP 421 at the Elkhart train station. (The connection to the E&W was also changed at that time, moving the switch for the E&W to the east and outside of CP 421.)

If I’m not mistaken everything south of Cowling was searchlights, where as Park and Cowling are tri-lights. Probably the lack of mechanical parts in the tri-lights spared them and was cheaper to leave up.

[justalurker66]

NS left tri-lights up at Butler Indiana (if I recall correctly) while replacing tri-lights everywhere else along the Chicago Line and Marion Branch (as far as Warsaw). The Marion Branch still had position lights north of Warsaw. The position lights survive in Marion (except the dwarf). It looks like there is a searchlight at the diamond in Marion Indiana.

[GP30M4216]

Watco petitioned the STB a few years ago for the removal of signals from Three Rivers south. The petition was denied. Watco ended up replacing all of the signals south of Three Rivers. I'm not sure why they didn't replace Park and Cowling. CP 99 became CP 1 When NS replaced the signal as part of their rebuild of CP 421 at the Elkhart train station. (The connection to the E&W was also changed at that time, moving the switch for the E&W to the east and outside of CP 421.)

If I’m not mistaken everything south of Cowling was searchlights, where as Park and Cowling are tri-lights. Probably the lack of mechanical parts in the tri-lights spared them and was cheaper to leave up.

This is a good point MQT, which I had not considered. I think the signalization of the line from south of Three Rivers to Elkhart was part of the CTC modernization of the Air Line from Jackson which coincided with the opening of the new Elkhart yard in the late 1950s. CP Park didn’t exist at that time. I’m not sure if the diamond at 4th Street in Three Rivers or the south end of the wye from the Air Line to the Kalamazoo branch was signaled.

The CP Park siding was created in the late 1970s when the Air Line was being downgraded expecting abandonment, and the GR&I south of Kalamazoo was also being severed. Another CTC passing siding was needed in this territory on what would become the new primary line between Elkhart and the Michigan Line, at Kalamazoo. Why wasn’t the rest of the Kzoo branch signaled at least as far as Kalamazoo? Probably a financial reason. Either way, the Three Rivers signals were not as old as the others to the south and instead are Type G signals which, as you note, do not have moving parts. The intermediate signal at 4th Street probably dates from the same era. FWIW, the old signal at CP 421 on the Kalamazoo branch was also a Type G, dating from when 421 was modernized also around 1960. As noted, it is now replaced.

[justalurker66]

FWIW, the old signal at CP 421 on the Kalamazoo branch was also a Type G, dating from when 421 was modernized also around 1960. As noted, it is now replaced.

Considering the complete rebuild of CP 421 I would have been disappointed if any signal survived.

The Kalamazoo Branch signal was moved west to where the branch joins the Chicago Line main line tracks (which were shifted south when CP 421 was completely reconfigured).

[NSSD70ACe]

Watco petitioned the STB a few years ago for the removal of signals from Three Rivers south. The petition was denied. Watco ended up replacing all of the signals south of Three Rivers. I'm not sure why they didn't replace Park and Cowling. CP 99 became CP 1 When NS replaced the signal as part of their rebuild of CP 421 at the Elkhart train station. (The connection to the E&W was also changed at that time, moving the switch for the E&W to the east and outside of CP 421.)

If I’m not mistaken everything south of Cowling was searchlights, where as Park and Cowling are tri-lights. Probably the lack of mechanical parts in the tri-lights spared them and was cheaper to leave up.

This is a good point MQT, which I had not considered. I think the signalization of the line from south of Three Rivers to Elkhart was part of the CTC modernization of the Air Line from Jackson which coincided with the opening of the new Elkhart yard in the late 1950s. CP Park didn’t exist at that time. I’m not sure if the diamond at 4th Street in Three Rivers or the south end of the wye from the Air Line to the Kalamazoo branch was signaled.

The CP Park siding was created in the late 1970s when the Air Line was being downgraded expecting abandonment, and the GR&I south of Kalamazoo was also being severed. Another CTC passing siding was needed in this territory on what would become the new primary line between Elkhart and the Michigan Line, at Kalamazoo. Why wasn’t the rest of the Kzoo branch signaled at least as far as Kalamazoo? Probably a financial reason. Either way, the Three Rivers signals were not as old as the others to the south and instead are Type G signals which, as you note, do not have moving parts. The intermediate signal at 4th Street probably dates from the same era. FWIW, the old signal at CP 421 on the Kalamazoo branch was also a Type G, dating from when 421 was modernized also around 1960. As noted, it is now replaced.

What is the control method north of the signal system into Kzoo? Track warrant? Yard limits?

[1TrackMind]

CPMY coaches are on 303 today north to GR.

[Raildudes dad]

Coaches arrived in GR at 12:28 pm

[Andy24]

Coaches arrived in GR at 12:28 pm

Photo?

I just saw a video from plainwell Railfan that passed him at 12pm at 106th Ave. I don’t think it took 28 minutes for this train from Plainwell all the way to downtown GR

[GP30M4216]

What is the control method north of the signal system into Kzoo? Track warrant? Yard limits?

In the NS days at least, it was Form D territory. Various block stations exist which delineate non signaled blocks from Park all the way up to Hughart in Grand Rapids. I think Z man actually has one near his Grand Elk viewing position. Anyhow, I really wish I had recorded the scanner chatter between BO Tower and the train crews (and the dispatcher, too?) issuing some of these when I was living in Kalamazoo from 2003-2008. I don’t remember all the details but the train was identified as “C&E Extra Engine ####”, then “circle line 2 operate in XX direction between LOCATION and LOCATION,” initials, and the time of day.

Does Grand Elk use Form D’s or another type of track warrant?

[Raildudes dad]

The coaches were reported in GR at 12:28pm by the RailInc car hire reporting system. The previous report was Otsego at 10:00am. I don't know what else I can tell you.

[1TrackMind]

What is the control method north of the signal system into Kzoo? Track warrant? Yard limits?

TWC