MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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AARR
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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redside20 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:29 pm
Over on the Midland Sub for HESR, there also appears to be in Auburn in which an ADM facility along with a Ittner bean and the andersons the latter of which seems to be only active customer at this time.The dow plant is at the end of the line for them. I hear Michigan Sugar and helena chemical keep the railroad busy on that end of the line towards port huron in croswell. Along with Croswell and Caro, what about the sugar plants in Sebewaing, Carrollton, and Bay City?
I have also heard that only ADM grain elevator in Auburn is shipping by rail at this time. The ADM bean plant and Ittner are inactive.

The Michigan Sugar plants all ship by rail but some more than others. Bay City is switched frequently. Croswell us switched twice a week during the busy season (about 21 weeks) and once a week thereafter. Caro is switched about once a week year round. I'm not sure about Sebewaing because I was told it is only used during the busy season (about 21 weeks) but according to Michigan Sugar's website their total tonnage is second only to Bay City.

Helena in Croswell is busy during the late winter/early spring but slows down in-between.

Carrollton does not produce anything AFAIK but is used as a warehouse for finished products from the other plants.

Corrections are welcomed.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by redside20 »

How many ADM facilities are in Auburn? and what about the Andersons facility there? And does the Carrollton warehouse ship by rail?
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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redside20 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:56 pm
How many ADM facilities are in Auburn? and what about the Andersons facility there? And does the Carrollton warehouse ship by rail?
I made a mistake. The Andersons (not ADM) in Auburn ships by rail. The ADM bean plant I am told does not at this time. The Andersons also has a small fertilizer dealer east of town.

The Michigan Sugar warehouse (former plant) in Carrollton ships by rail AFAIK.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by NS3322 »

Is there any traffic in Fremont on the Michigan Shore? I believe Ceres Solutions moved all rail operations to White Cloud. Did they every transload lumber again?

I believe currently the three main customers for MS are:
Webb Chemical
Brinks Terminal
Nugent Sand (traffic down)

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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Does Ceres infrequently (once or twice a year) receive fertilizer?
NS3322 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:09 am
Is there any traffic in Fremont on the Michigan Shore? I believe Ceres Solutions moved all rail operations to White Cloud. Did they every transload lumber again?

I believe currently the three main customers for MS are:
Webb Chemical
Brinks Terminal
Nugent Sand (traffic down)
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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NS3322 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2024 10:09 am
I believe Ceres Solutions moved all rail operations to White Cloud.
I got the drone up this last October while chasing the MQT, while I didn’t take any photos of the facility, I did notice 6-8 CH’s on their lead. Past satellite photos show only 3-4.

I did ask my girlfriend for the hell of it since she used to live in White Cloud until she moved here to the D with me, she said they did undergo some sort of expansion in the last year or two (she couldn’t remember). Which may validate the less cars in the past and more now.

Not sure if that awnsers your question, but I thought I’d throw it out there.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:13 pm
You guys all appear to be talking about different lines.

Muskegon to West Olive is Michigan Shore.

Ludington, Manistee, Baldwin etc is Marquette Rail.

The actual Mid Michigan RR is the line from Alma to Paines. MMRR itself is going to be merged into the Huron & Eastern, per the latest G&W plans. The railroad isn't going away, it's just going to be operated as part of the HESR (which it almost is currently anyway). The MMRR crews will have to decide if they want to go to HESR or go to the Grand Rapids Eastern or Michigan Shore.

Here's where it gets muddy. "Mid Michigan Railroad" has been the overall umbrella company for the MMRR, GRE, and MS since the 90s in the RailTex era. All of the crews are technically MMRR employees. When G&W bought Rail America, the original goal was to make the MS, GRE, and MMRR all simply "Mid Michigan RR", but that never wound up happening. That is why locomotives 2019, 2057, 2169, and 2170 all are lettered for MMRR. The only reason that GR 2104 is lettered for Grand Rapids Eastern is due to the efforts of some local management.

So yes, MMRR soon will cease to exist. Its operations will be folded into HESR. GRE and MS will be operated as separate entities but will likely still share crews like they do now. GRE is supposed to be going to 5 days per week operations soon as well.
The MMRR will be Merged with HESR, end of this year, Alma Will close after the guys out there retire, then it’ll be ran on the HESR extra board out of bay city.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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AARR wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:10 pm
redside20 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:56 pm
How many ADM facilities are in Auburn? and what about the Andersons facility there? And does the Carrollton warehouse ship by rail?
I made a mistake. The Andersons (not ADM) in Auburn ships by rail. The ADM bean plant I am told does not at this time. The Andersons also has a small fertilizer dealer east of town.

The Michigan Sugar warehouse (former plant) in Carrollton ships by rail AFAIK.
Huron & Eastern would have way more traffic in grain if it wasn’t for ZFS in Ithaca switching to primarily Trucks, HESR had about 10-15 grain trains of 100+ cars of Soybeans for the ZFS contract which are no longer due to ZFS having problems with the GLC, besides the grain out of Marlette and brown City going onto LSRC/CSX there isn’t that much business out there like I said there would be a lot more if the ZFS contract was still in play

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by AARR »

GLC has a new GM. It appears that they are getting service levels up again. Will that change anything for HESR?
RailroadingFan wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:41 pm
Huron & Eastern would have way more traffic in grain if it wasn’t for ZFS in Ithaca switching to primarily Trucks, HESR had about 10-15 grain trains of 100+ cars of Soybeans for the ZFS contract which are no longer due to ZFS having problems with the GLC, besides the grain out of Marlette and brown City going onto LSRC/CSX there isn’t that much business out there like I said there would be a lot more if the ZFS contract was still in play
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by RailroadingFan »

AARR wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:53 pm
GLC has a new GM. It appears that they are getting service levels up again. Will that change anything for HESR?
RailroadingFan wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:41 pm
Huron & Eastern would have way more traffic in grain if it wasn’t for ZFS in Ithaca switching to primarily Trucks, HESR had about 10-15 grain trains of 100+ cars of Soybeans for the ZFS contract which are no longer due to ZFS having problems with the GLC, besides the grain out of Marlette and brown City going onto LSRC/CSX there isn’t that much business out there like I said there would be a lot more if the ZFS contract was still in play
If the GLC does get better, the HESR should get the ZFS contract back for soybeans can imagine it’s costing ZFS a lot more to move via trucks than rail, but besides the soybeans nothing should increase from GLC.,

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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I have family who farm up in that area and they don't like trucking to ZFS because they have to wait in line for a long time.
They would rather deliver to the local elevators and let them shuttle it to ZFS by rail.
RailroadingFan wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:48 pm
If the GLC does get better, the HESR should get the ZFS contract back for soybeans can imagine it’s costing ZFS a lot more to move via trucks than rail, but besides the soybeans nothing should increase from GLC.,
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by GP-35 »

Zeeland Farms has been looking into building at track from the Ithaca plant over to the Mid-Michigan line from Alma over to Saginaw. Some of the large farms in between Zeeland and the east west line over to Saginaw have been saying they would be willing to give Zeeland right-a-way if they decide to go ahead with the project, that's how pissed off Zeeland is with GLC. GLC has cost Zeeland a ton of money in the past year with some car that were sitting in Durand yard last summer for up to four weeks. When the cars finely made it to Zeeland most of the soybeans were spoiled and rooted. Also they were lied to constantly "saying they didnt know where there car were, when all the time they were sitting in Durand for weeks on end". MDOT even had to get involved having a meeting with GLC and Zeeland to find out what was going on with GLC and there very poor service to Zeeland Farms. The meeting was a little heated because MDOT told Zeeland when they were thinking about building the soybean plant there that they were told that they would receive very good rail service. So lets see what happens. Remember, money talks and crap walks!!!

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by AARR »

Is GLC service improving with the new GM?
GP-35 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2024 12:32 am
Zeeland Farms has been looking into building at track from the Ithaca plant over to the Mid-Michigan line from Alma over to Saginaw.
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

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RailroadingFan wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:26 pm
SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:13 pm
You guys all appear to be talking about different lines.

Muskegon to West Olive is Michigan Shore.

Ludington, Manistee, Baldwin etc is Marquette Rail.

The actual Mid Michigan RR is the line from Alma to Paines. MMRR itself is going to be merged into the Huron & Eastern, per the latest G&W plans. The railroad isn't going away, it's just going to be operated as part of the HESR (which it almost is currently anyway). The MMRR crews will have to decide if they want to go to HESR or go to the Grand Rapids Eastern or Michigan Shore.

Here's where it gets muddy. "Mid Michigan Railroad" has been the overall umbrella company for the MMRR, GRE, and MS since the 90s in the RailTex era. All of the crews are technically MMRR employees. When G&W bought Rail America, the original goal was to make the MS, GRE, and MMRR all simply "Mid Michigan RR", but that never wound up happening. That is why locomotives 2019, 2057, 2169, and 2170 all are lettered for MMRR. The only reason that GR 2104 is lettered for Grand Rapids Eastern is due to the efforts of some local management.

So yes, MMRR soon will cease to exist. Its operations will be folded into HESR. GRE and MS will be operated as separate entities but will likely still share crews like they do now. GRE is supposed to be going to 5 days per week operations soon as well.
The MMRR will be Merged with HESR, end of this year, Alma Will close after the guys out there retire, then it’ll be ran on the HESR extra board out of bay city.
What is the reason for why HESR cannot merge MMRR into HESR and simply carry cars thru from Durand to the customers on MMRR?

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by RailroadingFan »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:40 am
RailroadingFan wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2024 3:26 pm
SD80MAC wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:13 pm
You guys all appear to be talking about different lines.

Muskegon to West Olive is Michigan Shore.

Ludington, Manistee, Baldwin etc is Marquette Rail.

The actual Mid Michigan RR is the line from Alma to Paines. MMRR itself is going to be merged into the Huron & Eastern, per the latest G&W plans. The railroad isn't going away, it's just going to be operated as part of the HESR (which it almost is currently anyway). The MMRR crews will have to decide if they want to go to HESR or go to the Grand Rapids Eastern or Michigan Shore.

Here's where it gets muddy. "Mid Michigan Railroad" has been the overall umbrella company for the MMRR, GRE, and MS since the 90s in the RailTex era. All of the crews are technically MMRR employees. When G&W bought Rail America, the original goal was to make the MS, GRE, and MMRR all simply "Mid Michigan RR", but that never wound up happening. That is why locomotives 2019, 2057, 2169, and 2170 all are lettered for MMRR. The only reason that GR 2104 is lettered for Grand Rapids Eastern is due to the efforts of some local management.

So yes, MMRR soon will cease to exist. Its operations will be folded into HESR. GRE and MS will be operated as separate entities but will likely still share crews like they do now. GRE is supposed to be going to 5 days per week operations soon as well.
The MMRR will be Merged with HESR, end of this year, Alma Will close after the guys out there retire, then it’ll be ran on the HESR extra board out of bay city.
What is the reason for why HESR cannot merge MMRR into HESR and simply carry cars thru from Durand to the customers on MMRR?
I believe that the HESR out of Durand will eventually end up handling everything that GLC currently does after Alma Closes in 2025 or 2026, it would be in the customers best interest, G&W treats customers pretty well compared to other railroads like GLC and LSRC, i believe come 2026 the LSRC interchange at Paines will also be no longer because HESR can just pull it out of LSRC Saginaw yard.

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by GP-35 »

Mr. AARR, the damage is already done. Zeeland is tired of being lied to and broken promises. Its time for MDOT to seek a new operator and get rid of GLC, they had to many chances in the past to straighten up!!!

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by AARR »

Is this an opportunity for another operator, like WATCO, to buy and take over?
GP-35 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:30 am
Mr. AARR, the damage is already done. Zeeland is tired of being lied to and broken promises. Its time for MDOT to seek a new operator and get rid of GLC, they had to many chances in the past to straighten up!!!
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by AARR »

Can you share with us why HESR and MMRR can't interchange cars directly right now?
RailroadingFan wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2024 11:13 am
LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:40 am
What is the reason for why HESR cannot merge MMRR into HESR and simply carry cars thru from Durand to the customers on MMRR?
I believe that the HESR out of Durand will eventually end up handling everything that GLC currently does after Alma Closes in 2025 or 2026, it would be in the customers best interest, G&W treats customers pretty well compared to other railroads like GLC and LSRC, i believe come 2026 the LSRC interchange at Paines will also be no longer because HESR can just pull it out of LSRC Saginaw yard.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by redside20 »

This is bizaare, are they going to tear out the MMRR track and yard in Alma including the connection and Y? And does this have anything to do with Rickoff being out at LSRC? I thought the LSRC was growing and gaining customers?
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Re: MMRR to cease operations in 2025?

Unread post by joeyuboats »

WHOA-- WHOA---- RICKOFF OUT AT LSRC???? WHY???? FIRST I HEAR OF IT!!!

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