CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

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conrailmike
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by conrailmike »

David Lang wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:44 am
Why no frames coming in Contrail Mike?

I was wondering this myself, is there a reason for this? I am interested in the information you provide given you are in the auto industry and are a great resource when it comes to these things.

Thank you.
GM has said that it will not be traditional body-on-frame but it will also not be a unibody. Apparently it's some sort of combination of the two.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

conrailmike wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:39 pm
David Lang wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:44 am
Why no frames coming in Contrail Mike?

I was wondering this myself, is there a reason for this? I am interested in the information you provide given you are in the auto industry and are a great resource when it comes to these things.

Thank you.
GM has said that it will not be traditional body-on-frame but it will also not be a unibody. Apparently it's some sort of combination of the two.

Skateboard chassis

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Delray
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Delray »

Someone on Facebook posted a picture of a CN truck at Joslyn Rd. today

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by NS3322 »

Delray wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:44 am
Someone on Facebook posted a picture of a CN truck at Joslyn Rd. today
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't signals required to be routinely inspected even if the line is out of service?

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by David Collins »

I think it’s safe to say that the Lake Orion branch north of Collier Road WILL have rail service returning in the near future. My reasoning is that in the recent grant by the state to the railroads, CN’s portion of the grant was for track rehab and crossing improvements in Oakland County (the same county where this line is). With word going around that they’re putting ties back in at the Orion facility, it’s gotta be only a matter of time before things really start happening.
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GrandTrunkPontiac
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by GrandTrunkPontiac »

David Collins wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:00 pm
I think it’s safe to say that the Lake Orion branch north of Collier Road WILL have rail service returning in the near future. My reasoning is that in the recent grant by the state to the railroads, CN’s portion of the grant was for track rehab and crossing improvements in Oakland County (the same county where this line is). With word going around that they’re putting ties back in at the Orion facility, it’s gotta be only a matter of time before things really start happening.
Awesome to hear, I fully welcome “new” rail service in the area, but that’ll also make things really fun up at Joslyn & Brown corner. I suppose that would probably only amount to a train or two max per day, though. The Sam’s Club hill would make a great overhead shot of the action, too, if you can dodge the folks racing through the the parking lot to get to the gas station.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by ATTM4150 »

A few years ago CN approached some Michigan shortlines about purchasing the Orion Sub from the bridge over Dixie Highway to the GM plant. The theory was that a shortline could operate it cheaper than CN and thus lower shipping rates and maybe get back the GM Orion Plant business for CN to long-haul out of Pontiac. Supposedly, the reason GM wasn't shipping finished cars out by rail for so many years was that it was too expensive to do so with what CN had to charge. I can see that as they needed to support and maintain a long branchline and multiple crews to service them. CN talked to two, maybe three, shortlines. But they never sold it. Maybe they were just sending a warning shot to their unions about operating this line or something?
The company I work for (railroad contractor and owner of a few shortlines) Approached CN about potentially buying/leasing the property for car storage and possible rail customers, but from what I heard from upper management, CN wanted way to much for the property and claimed to have possible plans for it. Just what I heard from the grapevine though.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by DaveO »

You would need to check legal documents which would likely be so redacted to be useless.
That whole GM plant was done with various government assistance.
I doubt storing cars for money is an allowable use.
Please note I used "for money".

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

DaveO wrote:
Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:51 am
You would need to check legal documents which would likely be so redacted to be useless.
That whole GM plant was done with various government assistance.
I doubt storing cars for money is an allowable use.
Please note I used "for money".
it could be if it was done in addition to whatever else was deemed acceptable

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by MQT1223 »

NS3322 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:24 pm
Delray wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:44 am
Someone on Facebook posted a picture of a CN truck at Joslyn Rd. today
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't signals required to be routinely inspected even if the line is out of service?
Only if the rail is intact. Remove a stick and the line will be officially "Out of Service", and the crossings can be shut off.
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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

MQT1223 wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:32 pm
NS3322 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:24 pm
Delray wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:44 am
Someone on Facebook posted a picture of a CN truck at Joslyn Rd. today
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't signals required to be routinely inspected even if the line is out of service?
Only if the rail is intact. Remove a stick and the line will be officially "Out of Service", and the crossings can be shut off.
That has happened in that area. Line is physically severed just before Collier Rd.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by MQT1223 »

Chip wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:37 pm
MQT1223 wrote:
Mon Jun 19, 2023 7:32 pm
NS3322 wrote:
Wed Feb 15, 2023 12:24 pm


Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't signals required to be routinely inspected even if the line is out of service?
Only if the rail is intact. Remove a stick and the line will be officially "Out of Service", and the crossings can be shut off.
That has happened in that area. Line is physically severed just before Collier Rd.
They did the same thing on Grand Elk's Hastings lead. Pulled the bolts out of a pair of joiners, tipped the stick of rail on its side and boom, OOS. Kept at least a mile of rail maintenance free and two major crossings that needed serious work off the docket for a while. It's all been returned to service now.
1223 OUT! President and Founder of the Buck Creek Central, the Rolling River Route! (2012-2017) President and Founder of the Lamberton Valley Railroad, The Tin Plate Road! Proudly railfanning with Asperger's since 1996. :)

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by David Lang »

Drove by the GM Lake Orion Plant yesterday and noticed a very large addition underway there.

While the rails crossing Josyln Road are completely grown over with weeds, Here's hoping rail service returns!

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

GM is adding another year to the retooling time.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busin ... 215590007/

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

TheStreet.com

Auto giant pulls the plug on this new vehicle line
GM presses 'pause' on its new EV truck.


It’s looking more and more like the demand for electric vehicle trucks isn’t as high as automakers thought.

That’s the main takeaway from General Motors Oct. 17 decision to pause production on its Chevrolet Silverado EV and GMC Sierra EV truck brands. GM says it will “re-time” the $4 billion conversion of its Michigan-based Orion Assembly plant, putting a stop to the automaker's plan to repurpose the plant for EV truck manufacturing.

GM is saying the decision only represents a delay in its EV truck line production. The Orion Assembly plant was supposed to be converted to EV truck production in 2024. Now GM says it’s pushing that date back to 2025 in an effort to “better manage capital investments” and boost truck building improvements that would attract more buyers, the company noted in a statement.
Currently, the Orion plant manufactures GM’s Chevrolet Bolt E and EUV, which the company is shelving by the end of this year.

The decision to pause GM’s EV trucks comes only a week after rival Ford Motor indicated it would pull one shift away from its F-150 Lightning EV pickup plant. The Wall Street Journal has reported that Ford made the decision due to lower-than-expected demand from truck buyers. An internal Ford memo indicated sales for the F-150 have “tanked,” according to The Journal.

That’s not exactly a shock, as data streaming out over the past several months show demand for EV trucks really is low.

In fact, of all EV lines, regular pick-up truck drivers are the least likely to buy EV trucks, according to data from AutoPacific. Just 12% of full-sized and 8% of mid-sized pickup buyers tracked by AutoPacific say they’re “interested in purchasing an EV truck, as reported by Heat Map.
That shouldn’t be a surprise to automakers, the report notes.

Pickup truck buyers are typically the most engrained in their roots and opinions when it comes to straying too far from the normal pickup truck DNA,” AutoPacific product and consumer insights analyst Robby DeGraff stated. “Demand for ICE (gas/diesel powered) pickups will never fade and it rages on in popularity, but that type of demand isn’t and likely won’t ever be mirrored for EV pickups.”

General Motors stock is trading at $29.82 on Oct. 18, and share prices are down by 11.36% for the year. Ford stock shares are trading at $11.36, up 1.97% on a year-to-date basis.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by Chip »

An internal Ford memo indicated sales for the F-150 have “tanked,” according to The Journal.
That didn’t come from an internal Ford memo, it came from a letter from the Union to the membership. I have the full letter if anyone cares.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by David Lang »

Yeah, been hearing this news too.

From the CN Lake Orion Sub perspective, it appears we will likely be waiting longer to see if the branch comes back to life North of Collier Road.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by PatAzo »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2023 8:22 pm

Pickup truck buyers are typically the most engrained in their roots and opinions when it comes to straying too far from the normal pickup truck DNA,” AutoPacific product and consumer insights analyst Robby DeGraff stated. “Demand for ICE (gas/diesel powered) pickups will never fade and it rages on in popularity, but that type of demand isn’t and likely won’t ever be mirrored for EV pickups.”
The range sucks. 240 miles for the "Pro" model which, once you consider the recommended minimum/maximum charge levels and HVAC demand, cuts that range by about half. EV cars face the same limitations. Where EV trucks really fall flat is once you put a load on them the range drops even more.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by David Lang »

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/gen ... gan-plants

Looks like "if" the Orion Sub ever sees autorack trains again, we will have to (at least) wait a bit longer, which is what we were saying a few months ago in the above posts. Just thought I'd pos the latest article on the subject anyway.

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Re: CN Lake Orion Sub - The end finally???

Unread post by joeyuboats »

BUT. BUT, BUT---- you mean Mary Barra, and the GM top management are incorrect, about EV's ? Say it isn't so.................

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