ADBF Ownership Change

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1TrackMind
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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AARR wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:10 pm
W2Fuel was inactive last I heard
The carbon dioxide going to the ethanol plant is inbound for a company on-site (something dry ice IIRC) that distributes it.
NS3322 wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:12 am
AARR wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:37 am
...based on the limited traffic ADBF currently has I doubt it will happen.
Is this an accurate listing for ADBF customers?

W2Fuel - Adrian
Plastic Omnium - Adrian
OmniSource - Adrian
Michigan Agricultural Commodities - Blissfield
Nutrien AG Solutions - Blissfield
Valero Renewables - Riga (Inactive, but still shipping out carbon dioxide. CO2 is a byproduct of ethanol production).
W2 has several tanks on their spur. I don't know if they are being loaded or not.

1TrackMind
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:05 am
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.

ADBF has never been surfaced and JAIL hasn’t been since they leased it.
Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.

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LansingRailFan
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:05 am
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.

ADBF has never been surfaced and JAIL hasn’t been since they leased it.
Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
Stick rail from the 1920s…good for 40!

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AARR
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:45 pm
W2 has several tanks on their spur. I don't know if they are being loaded or not.
Thank you for the update
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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LansingRailFan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:10 pm
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.
I get why they would want to get JAIL up to 25 mph so perhaps they can cover the entire line with one crew.

What would the benefit be of getting ADBF up to 25 mph?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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LansingRailFan
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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AARR wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:56 am
LansingRailFan wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:10 pm
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.
I get why they would want to get JAIL up to 25 mph so perhaps they can cover the entire line with one crew.

What would the benefit be of getting ADBF up to 25 mph?
Not sure with the existing customer base but the strategy goes like this: we (ADBF) are investing in our facilities to greater serve your (current, former and prospective customer) needs.

Us armchair Railfans always lament why RR’s won’t invest to prospect for customers. ZFS/Bagwell seem to be doing just that.

Maybe they will be hauling unit trains of powdered mashed potatoes and Salisbury steaks and mixed veg too? One can only dream!

i995impalass
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:05 am
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.

ADBF has never been surfaced and JAIL hasn’t been since they leased it.
Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?

Chip
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:47 am
1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:05 am
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.

ADBF has never been surfaced and JAIL hasn’t been since they leased it.
Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?
Look at what ND&W has done just to get them to 10mph.

i995impalass
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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Chip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:41 am
i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:47 am
1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm


Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?
Look at what ND&W has done just to get them to 10mph.
Where do you see the Pioneer budget for track maintenance for the ND&W? How many millions of dollars has this project cost over how many years?

Chip
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:57 am
Chip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:41 am
i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:47 am


What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?
Look at what ND&W has done just to get them to 10mph.
Where do you see the Pioneer budget for track maintenance for the ND&W? How many millions of dollars has this project cost over how many years?
you don't even need to look at their ledger, just look at all the grants they've gotten to fix their tracks

Geez, it's like some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.

1TrackMind
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:47 am
1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm
LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:05 am
Track surfacing project has started in Jackson. Goal is to get JAIL and ADBF up to 25 mph.

ADBF has never been surfaced and JAIL hasn’t been since they leased it.
Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?
The whole railroad is 10 mph, with some sections down to 5 mph.

There's roughly 3250 ties per mile. So lets assume on average they would have to replace half of them each mile.

That's 3250/2=1650 ties per mile. Now at roughly $55 per tie, that would be $89,375 per mile just for ties. So if they did the whole railroad, which is roughly 50 miles, it would cost $4,468,750 just in ties.

Need I say more....

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AARR
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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ADBF is about 15 miles from Riga to end of line west of Adrian

JAIL is about 37 miles from Jackson to CSX connection in Lansing. They have several other lines too for a total of 44.5 miles.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

i995impalass
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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1TrackMind wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:30 pm
i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:47 am
1TrackMind wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:47 pm


Lol that's comical. What would be the point of making the Adrian line 25 mph? The Jail is in rough shape it'll take millions to get it up to 25 mph.
What facts do you have that this project would costs millions?
The whole railroad is 10 mph, with some sections down to 5 mph.

There's roughly 3250 ties per mile. So lets assume on average they would have to replace half of them each mile.

That's 3250/2=1650 ties per mile. Now at roughly $55 per tie, that would be $89,375 per mile just for ties. So if they did the whole railroad, which is roughly 50 miles, it would cost $4,468,750 just in ties.

Need I say more....
You probably shouldn't and refer to CFR 49 Part 213 for all the class 2 track standards, cost of relay ties vs new, recycled materials, savings of equipment and track wear and tear, deprecation, fuel costs savings (running 10MPH vs 25), man hours savings, and customer satisfaction. Not all railroads make millions like the class ones..


Chip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:28 pm
i995impalass wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:57 am
Chip wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:41 am


Look at what ND&W has done just to get them to 10mph.
Where do you see the Pioneer budget for track maintenance for the ND&W? How many millions of dollars has this project cost over how many years?
you don't even need to look at their ledger, just look at all the grants they've gotten to fix their tracks

Geez, it's like some people like to argue for the sake of arguing.
What grants? Are you referring to the short-line tax credits, state or local tax breaks, customer track construction rebates? You seem to be quick to assume you know and understand the finance of the railroad and with me asking for the facts to back up a statements seems like arguing, its not. I'm asking simple questions that is being deflected with assumptions.

Whole point is to have armchair rail fans understand that railroads are a business. Class ones are big business and many short lines are small business, some in between. Just because CSX buys brand new F350 hirail trucks, doesn't mean that a shortline will do the same or can afford it. Same holds for locomotives, track, building repairs, hourly rates employees are paid, maintenance with contractors, ect.

You have more people on this board that actually work at railroads then you might think. Big management included. 99%, including myself shy from posting much, because of the statement(s) above. When railfans decided they would rather argue with what was learned on the google machine vs listen and learn, they lose out on current and historical railroading information that current railroaders have to share.

If the ADBF can upgrade the track to 25MPH, good for them. You fellas shouldn't be so quick to put it down and be thankful that a railroad is growing and not on the brink of being eliminated. It might provide some of you employment one day.

Raildudes dad
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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Hi i995impalass:
I just get another bag of popcorn and read the latest posts. :)

i995impalass
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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Raildudes dad wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:02 am
Hi i995impalass:
I just get another bag of popcorn and read the latest posts. :)
Lol, thank guy. Hope that new TM at GR is getting the Standard cars timely.. :mrgreen:

1TrackMind
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

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i995impalass wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:19 am

Not all railroads make millions like the class ones..
That's why it doesn't make sense...

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~Z~
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Re: ADBF Ownership Change

Unread post by ~Z~ »

Cleaned up some posts - This thread sucks; locking, thank you, drive thru.

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