Progress of the Michigan Line M/W (part 4)

[Steve B]

Not a tease at all! It's from a good source, who understandably said "I'll believe it when I see it." Certainly more ridership available through Michigan than South Bend-Bryan. Amtrak must be hypothesizing that the ridership, coupled with increased track speeds, might make the additional distance worth it. If the experiment proves successful, I wonder what running time they'll aim for between Town Line and Toledo, and how much track, grade x-ing & signal improvements on that stretch would cost.

[NSSD70ACe]

Word on the street is that Amtrak's Lake Shore Ltd. will be rerouted through Mich. in October for a month on an experimental basis.

Don't worry, the nuclear codes won't be stolen because of this post.

If this is indeed true, I wonder what'll happen to the Indiana stops. Will they be served by another train or will all those stations be shuttered? What'll happen to 29/30? As much as I'd like to see long-distance trains in Kalamazoo, I don't want to cities such as Elkhart to lose half of their service.

Could this be a pretext of a corridor service, whether by Amtrak or a third party such as Iowa Pacifc (or whoever runs the Hoosier State now), between Toledo and Chicago that serves the Northern Indiana station stops in addition to 29/30?

So many questions, so few answers.

[Saturnalia]

If they took 48/49 off the Chicago Line, it wouldn't hurt service much. The 29/30 is so close in timing it is almost useless for both to make the stops. One should probably be an express service to begin with.

Corridor Service? Nope. MDOT has this all covered

Another possibility is that instead of a re-routed LSL, a Wolverine pair is extended to Toledo.

[JStryker722]

If they took 48/49 off the Chicago Line, it wouldn't hurt service much. The 29/30 is so close in timing it is almost useless for both to make the stops. One should probably be an express service to begin with.

Corridor Service? Nope. MDOT has this all covered

Another possibility is that instead of a re-routed LSL, a Wolverine pair is extended to Toledo.

Didnt they do that before but rerouted it to Pontiac in 1995 citing bad track conditions and the like as problems??

[BnOEngr]

Word on the street is that Amtrak's Lake Shore Ltd. will be rerouted through Mich. in October for a month on an experimental basis.

Don't worry, the nuclear codes won't be stolen because of this post.

Problem is, those that provide the inside information that was to be kept "off the street" could subject themselves to disciplinary action thanks to a loose-lipped foamer. Where I work, the company makes it clear you could be subject to punishment up to, and including, termination for divulging "inside" corporate information.

[NS3322]

I recently took the Capitol Limited to Washington D.C. out of Elkhart. When I departed I was one of three people to board. However, on my return, there were probably 150 Amish persons waiting on the platform! The poor conductor didn't know what to do, as the train was already overbooked! I guess they were supposed to go on the LSL, but were switched to the CL at the last moment.

Honestly, I think Amtrak should add a few more coaches to the Capitol Limited and re-route the LSL on the Michigan Line.

As Ypsi said:

A direct Michigan NY connection.

When was the last time a train with a sleeper car ran on the Michigan Line?

[Steve B]

oops, double post

[Steve B]

Word on the street is that Amtrak's Lake Shore Ltd. will be rerouted through Mich. in October for a month on an experimental basis.

Don't worry, the nuclear codes won't be stolen because of this post.

Problem is, those that provide the inside information that was to be kept "off the street" could subject themselves to disciplinary action thanks to a loose-lipped foamer. Where I work, the company makes it clear you could be subject to punishment up to, and including, termination for divulging "inside" corporate information.

Um, that's why I didn't name my source. "Loose-lipped?" Give me a break. We're not exactly divulging military, trade or CIA secrets here. Amtrak isn't going to scrap this idea because a few railfans are talking about it.

[Saturnalia]

Steve B sounds a lot like a certain Presidental candidate when it comes to "classified"/insider info right now.

You need to respect that people could be FIRED for divulging insider info, no matter how simple and ineffectual it may sound to go. "Lose lips sink ships" in business and in politics. If you're not supposed to talk, then don't expect many details.

[Ypsi]

As easy as it is to jump on either side, we should take into account that if it really that "secretive" than the original sources, or the "announcement hinters" should keep quite all together. In this day and age where everyone is connected to everything, it takes hours for something like this to snowball and get leaked. No blame being placed, but we're getting to a point where nothing is secret.

And on a PR note, if something comes to fruition, you would want people thinking and talking about it ASAP so they get interested.. Even if it doesn't happen it could lead to additional positive public Intrest in the firm. My 2¢ for those saying he she it shouldn't say it..

[Steve B]

You need to respect that people could be FIRED for divulging insider info, no matter how simple and ineffectual it may sound to go. "Lose lips sink ships" in business and in politics. If you're not supposed to talk, then don't expect many details.

Again, that's why I didn't name my source. News organizations do it all the time, with the full cooperation of the un-named sources.

[Jochs]

Watch for an interesting development on this line in a few months as a result of the work...

What's the point of posting something so vague?

[jrgerber]

If you eliminated half of the rumors and speculation posts off this board there would a lot less to read. Half the people who are riding Steve B's rear end for posting what he heard need to chill or let others review their posts. I like to railfan and enjoy some of the people i meet, but some are real a**** unfortunately.

[MSchwiebert]

I'm not seeing any advantages to the rumored move. Slower transit time (don't kid yourself into thinking that the 110 out in western MI can make up for the slowness between Toledo & Detroit) for starters, secondly will there be a ridership increase when whatever stops in Michigan are traded for Bryan, Waterloo (Fort Wayne), South Bend & Elkhart? I doubt it. Next, where would passengers bound for New York that would be forced to take the Capitol Ltd. (except for Bryan Oh - they're screwed as the Cap doesn't stop there) connect to get to New York? Toledo? Pittsburgh and take the NEC?

There's a reason why the Detroit-Toledo routing has been freight only for 30+ years - it's slow and a waste of resources. The bus works very well, why mess with it?

Word on the street is that Amtrak's Lake Shore Ltd. will be rerouted through Mich. in October for a month on an experimental basis.

Don't worry, the nuclear codes won't be stolen because of this post.

Don't tease me like this that would be a sight to see

However expanding on this it is not the worst Idea ever. A direct Michigan NY connection. Plus there is quite literally nothing between Toledo and Chicago, plus it would give an earlier option than 351 into Chicago, and later option than 354 out of Chicago (assuming a similar-ish time card). You could even say that the trip from Michigan to Cleveland would be decent for business travelers. Not the worst idea, the less route overlap you have the better for Amtrak.

[twropr]

What kind of power is being used on the work trains these days?
Has anyone seen any evidence of curve straightening or switch replacement?
Andy

[SousaKerry]

There's a reason why the Detroit-Toledo routing has been freight only for 30+ years - it's slow and a waste of resources. The bus works very well, why mess with it?

Because busses suck and they aren't a train. If I get on a train with a ticket for NY and I have to get off the train to take a bus for 50 miles then get on another train I would be pissed. I would rather ride a train to Chicago to change trains to go to NY.

It would be like flying from NY to LA but you have to stop in Chicago and take a prop driven puddle jumper to St Louis to get on another jet to get to LA. Screw that

[Ypsi]

I'm not seeing any advantages to the rumored move. Slower transit time (don't kid yourself into thinking that the 110 out in western MI can make up for the slowness between Toledo & Detroit) for starters, secondly will there be a ridership increase when whatever stops in Michigan are traded for Bryan, Waterloo (Fort Wayne), South Bend & Elkhart? I doubt it. Next, where would passengers bound for New York that would be forced to take the Capitol Ltd. (except for Bryan Oh - they're screwed as the Cap doesn't stop there) connect to get to New York? Toledo? Pittsburgh and take the NEC?

There's a reason why the Detroit-Toledo routing has been freight only for 30+ years - it's slow and a waste of resources. The bus works very well, why mess with it?

1) still all rumored
2) it would be a test according to the rumors
3) the bus sucked, 2 hours to go from Ann Arbor to Detroit in a cramped coach
4) here's some data other than saying "OMG these people would be SKIPPED and that's bad"

Populations should speak for themselves. Business is business, and you always go with the larger population or potential for profit (generally the more people in the area the grater chance)

Populations of LSL skipped stops

South Bend: 100,886
Elkhart: 51,265
Waterloo: 2,236
Bryan: 8,527

Total: 162,914

Populations of Wolverine line stops that could be made:

Hammond: 78,967
Michigan City: 31,494
New Buffalo: 1,876
Niles: 30,022
Dowagiac: 5,806
Kalamazoo: 75,548
Battle Creek: 51,848
Albion: 8,534
Jackson: 33,423
Ann Arbor: 117,025
Dearborn: 95, 884

Total: 530,387

If that doesn't say something I don't know what will about the cities being left out. There is NOTHING between Chicago and Toledo, and the "time lost" *could* easily be made up by the huge increase in potential riders. That's not including cities within close driving distance of any stops of course, and for the Michigan stops that includes Ypsilanti, Chelsea, Detroit, etc. in the same breath you say take a bus down to Toledo, now we could say take a bus up to Michigan to go to New York. Final note, the time difference would likely be less than 2 hours, and I can't see it increasing above 3 hours longer really.. And as a businessman, I would take the tradeoff for the much larger population bases. Like its stated above, I'm more likely to go directly via train to New York than take a bus then a train. If it's there people are more likely to use it, but if it's a pain in the butt they won't.

[Steve B]

I'm all for higher speeds on the Michigan Line, but I won't get truly excited until Amtrak finally matches the Twilight Limited's running time from 1936 to 1942: 4 hours, 45 minutes with 6 intermediate stops. Right now their best is 5:19. I know back then speed limits were often winked at, there was less freight interference w. of Porter and there was at least double track all the way.

[dave989]

(government)Money talks, losers ride the bus....

[CR900945]

Ypsi update - New LH manual switch installed next to station in Ypsilanti today. First piece of panel track to connect to siding shoved into place. Switch starts next to the east end of station. Main track ballasted, lined, and surfaced this afternoon. Grade crossings at Park and Grove Streets have been closed and barricaded.