Ann Arbor-Detroit Commuter Rail

[OwlCaboose2853]

Ann Arbor to Detroit rail could be running by year-end, officials say http://www.annarbor.com/news/ann-arbor- ... cials-say/

[GTWChris]

Here is what I have heard directly from SEMCOG, The train schedules should he out in April, the first train set will be in in June and full operations will start in September. The commuter cars that they will be using are old Metra Gallery cars that are currently being restored by Great Lakes Central.

[KVERBERK]

I wonder what locomotives they will use?

[John Ryan]

The article says "contracts are signed to purchase ... locomotives." So, if contracts are signed, then they must know what they are getting. If GTWChris has an in with SEMCOG, perhaps he can tell up what they have coming.

[GTWChris]

I am just reading SEMCOG's January update:
http://www.semcog.org/uploadedFiles/Pro ... Update.pdf
GLC purchased about 26(is that right) commuter cars from Metra that had been in storage. Someone on here mentioned that the coaches had been moved out of the storage area in December. The article mentioned that they would be leasing/buying the cab cars/coaches from GLC, so I figured the only cab cars and coaches GLC own are the old Metra ones. As for the engines I have no idea, the update said that they would make their RFP in the next few weeks.

[nssd70m-2]

The last update said that they were going to lease the loco's.

[Shorthaul]

The first article states this:

In the coming months, SEMCOG and MDOT will design and lay sidings, which allow trains to wait on the sidetrack while trains with the right-of-way can pass. The agencies also plan to start investigating the environmental impact of the sidings and drawing up a marketing plan.

I don't think that this will require any additional sidings, as there is the old AA/NS interchange siding in A2, a stub-ended siding in depot town, and double track begins just east of ypsilanti; but if it does require new trackwork, it will be interesting to see where it is going to be. Hopefully I can catch them working on this stuff, MOW work is quite interesting

The last update said that they were going to lease the loco's.

As for the power,the PDF that GTWChris posted says that MDOT is going to submit an RFP (request for proposal). This means that they are asking companies to submit their ideas for what to do. I don't know how specific a document like this is, so I don't know if the lease/purchase situation has been decided upon yet. It seems like this request for proposal (RFP) would be a public document if it is intended to garner responses from different companies. I am not very educated about the business field, does anybody know more about this?

[GTW6401]

Its single track between Wayne and Dearborn, so there would need to be sidings in Wayne County.

I think they would be better off leasing equipment from Amtrak or other commuter agencies (if its available to them) which would be in better condition than the bi-levels are in.

[TrainWatcher]

Well for now my guess would be to lease a few AMTK P42's. They might eventually move to something closer to the F59PHI, or another "high-speed" type locomotive. But I do venture a guess that there will need to be trackwork done. From Wayne EAST its all single, until you are near Dearborn. Wayne West until CP YPSI is double, and from CP YPSI to Depot Town is single, I do not know much after Depot Town. And if you plan on 12 Trains (6 each way) and get around B34, Amtrak's 5 Wolverines, and whatever else runs West of Wayne,which isn't much these days, there is quite the need for Double Track. I bet Conrail when they ripped out the #2 track back in the 80's didnt ever plan this to happen. Just my $.02

Also word is that the private owner of the NYC Station at Depot Town will begin restoration for its eventual use in the service. It will add some variety and might make Wayne and the Michigan Line a hot spot for the first few runs.

[ns8401]

Amtrak has to much trouble keeping the P42's running and they are constantly short on equipment so I'm not sure they'd be of any help in this venture..... Outside of the operations of course.

[Shorthaul]

From Wayne EAST its all single, until you are near Dearborn. Wayne West until CP YPSI is double, and from CP YPSI to Depot Town is single, I do not know much after Depot Town.

East of depot town it's single-track. There is a 1/3 or so mile siding in Ann Arbor where the AA used to interchange with the CR/NS, its terrible track, would need some new ties, ballast, tamping, etc. Next is a 4-mile long stretch of double east of chelsea, double track through Jackson, siding at albion, double track at battle creek, and some other assorted sidings.

And if you plan on 12 Trains (6 each way) and get around B34, Amtrak's 5 Wolverines, and whatever else runs West of Wayne,which isn't much these days, there is quite the need for Double Track. I bet Conrail when they ripped out the #2 track back in the 80's didnt ever plan this to happen. Just my $.02

Freight railroads all share a burning hatred of double track. Since they can alter the schedules of their trains, they can spread out the traffic and allow single-track meets to work effectively. However, commuter rail operates in short bursts, the evening and morning rushes, which require double track, or many more sidings. Conrail probably did not expect this, and even if they did, saw no reason that they should pay to keep a redundant (in their eyes) track in place.
The good thing is that these new sidings can be relatively short, since they will be handling predominately passenger trains. I don't know how this would affect the trains that handle B34's cars east of wayne, but I would think that switching B34 to a night job would make things easier for both Amtrak and SEMCOG

[Fred]

Any upgrades or new track installed between Ann Arbor and Dearborn will be paid for by everybody BUT the NS and the NS will be paid to dispatch it so it's a good deal for the NS (not such a good deal for the poor dispr!)

[GTWChris]

About a year ago SEMCOG mentioned that the only involvement that they would have with Amtrak is scheduling around them. This being said none of the equipment and crews will be provided by Amtrak.

[ns8401]

I was going by the article that was provided at the top of this thread, however, it doesn't seem to quote SEMCOG heavily.... so I'm not sure how reliable it is.

[John Ryan]

Well for now my guess would be to lease a few AMTK P42's. They might eventually move to something closer to the F59PHI, or another "high-speed" type locomotive.

Where are these going to come from? Amtrak does not have any spares. Have you noticed how the number of freight units on Amtrak trains has mushroomed in the last year? The P42 fleet is failing, and Amtrak needs everything they have to just maintain service and keep up with failures. Every other commuter train operator, either a new start or service expansion, has gone with locomotives from MPI. Minneapolis, Los Angeles, Northern Virginia, Maryland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Chicago, and Albuquerque. All new. They are not "putting out requests for proposals" because no one has anything to propose. There is no stockpile of HEP equipped high-speed diesels sitting around in a field awaiting the call to duty. Those MPI locomotives run almost $3M per copy. If there were a cheaper alternative, someone would have gotten there first.

We have some conflicting information, where SEMCOG posts a PDF saying they are going to put out a request for proposals, and then the head of SEMCOG's transportation division tells the media that "contracts are signed." I highly doubt that they have any motive power lined up. They are fast on their way to discovering that a 40+ mile commuter operation with 10 train movements a day costs $300M+ to start, not $30M.

[John Ryan]

GLC purchased about 26(is that right) commuter cars from Metra that had been in storage. Someone on here mentioned that the coaches had been moved out of the storage area in December. The article mentioned that they would be leasing/buying the cab cars/coaches from GLC, so I figured the only cab cars and coaches GLC own are the old Metra ones. As for the engines I have no idea, the update said that they would make their RFP in the next few weeks.

Great Lakes Central's parent company, Federated Railways, is the one that owns the cars. You will note that they carry FRY reporting marks. GLC shop in Owosso provides them with a facility to work on their cars. Their website states that they have 40 trailers and at least 8 cab cars.

The interesting thing here is that FRY has been trying to lease these out to various commuter agencies for several years, even taking out advertisements in Railway Age promoting their cars. The funny part is that no commuter agencies have come forward to lease any cars, especially at a time when capacity is strained and agencies are trying to expand with constrained budgets. Perhaps the fact that the cars are pushing 60, have no collision posts, and are entirely not ADA accessible has something to do with it.

What you do see running are former NJT cars, which have been rebuilt by UTA for service in Salt Lake City and subsequently leased to Los Angeles' Metrolink. These cars are younger, safer, and do not have vestibules that are deathtraps for wheelchair users.

[TrainWatcher]

I agree Mr Ryan. I was thinking the MPI Locomotives, however, there are none that could be available quickly. However... I have seen a few Refurbed F Units, and E's running around such as:

6902:

http://ozarkmountainrailcar.com/eunit6902.htm

Or better yet! They'll buy Coe's F Units and The Traverse City Dinner Train F's as power!





There was a such thing as HEP equipped Geeps back when CR and PC were running passenger trains. But these are probably long gone. So where would you just "get" power like that quickly?

[Racer]

There is NO WAY they can use those F and E units unless they did alot of rebuilding because the locomotives currently used in commuter service are specificaly built for quick stopping and acceleration in/out of stations. Using those old units (like Coe Rail's) would be slower and could break-down often with all the stopping and going (Similar to a car's engine when stopping and going at traffic lights all the time). This is not what a commuter railroad wants (Especially NS or Amtrak). If anything, they would prolly lease stuff from other railroads like Metra or somthing (Like how VRE has Metra and Sounder commuter cars).

[RailCanon]

If this actually happens on the timetable they are proposing, I would expect to see some older F40s (which there are PLENTY of still around) purchased and set up for the Operation. The Music City Star in Nashville, TN started up in this method.
On the otherhand, GO Transit is/was retiring most of its older F59PH fleet in favor of the new MPI units. Those could be an option as well, at least in the short term.

[Racer]

I agree Gregg. On another note as far as the double trackage goes, Depot Town to the Amtrak Station in Ann Arbor would most likely be double tracked. Main reason is that if one train is occupying the terminating station (Ann Arbor in this case), the next train cannot enter the same station until the prior train returns to a meeting point somewhere in the system (Like Depot Town). An example is the operations of Flordia Tri-Rail I saw when I was in West Palm Beach. The trackage was doubled to the north-end of their system on CSX in Mangonia Park (Next station north of West Palm Beach). They would have the next train come into Magonia Park on the end of the system and while the train prepares for it's return trip, the next train would meet them on the second main, then the returning train would be able to cross over mains and return their trip south towards Miami without waiting (and repeat the same process for every northbound train becoming a southbound), therefore "fleeting" their trains so they can go to each station all the way to the end of their system without bottlenecking at one station for a meet. Granted, SEMCOG will not be as busy as Tri-Rail is, but it will come in handy because SEMCOG/ NS has more Amtrak trains than Tri-Rail has and more NS traffic east of Wayne than CSX had on the north end of Tri-Rail.