South Shore Double Track

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justin_gram
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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justin_gram »

Jochs wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:09 pm
I noticed on Sunday that 11th St. Station and the Mexican Restaurant next door to it are now gone.
DSC_0240.JPG
Apartments to come!
https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local ... 8372d.html

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justalurker66
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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Saturnalia wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:02 am
DaveO wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:51 am
How will train sets make it to the shops?
Most equipment will be staged and serviced at Dune Park.
Will there be late night/overnight dead moves pulled by freight engines to rotate stock back to the shops?
I assume power will be cut to make it easier to build the new track (without catenary and supports).

Dune Park to Gary need a similar closure next year to allow for the reconstruction of the Miller area?

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justalurker66 wrote:
Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:38 am
Saturnalia wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 7:02 am
DaveO wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 6:51 am
How will train sets make it to the shops?
Most equipment will be staged and serviced at Dune Park.
Will there be late night/overnight dead moves pulled by freight engines to rotate stock back to the shops?
I assume power will be cut to make it easier to build the new track (without catenary and supports).

Dune Park to Gary need a similar closure next year to allow for the reconstruction of the Miller area?
Yes and yes.
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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justin_gram wrote:
Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:09 pm
Apartments to come!
https://www.nwitimes.com/business/local ... 8372d.html
That development will change the look of downtown. A tall building that will tower over everything nearby. It also changes the character of the station. While "transit oriented development" was pushed from the beginning the original station plan was focused on serving passengers first with the potential of adding retail/offices on the west end of the property. The $80 million plan consumes the whole block and adds apartments. There was to be some shared use of the parking but a twelve story building will consume parking.

NICTD wanted a high volume quick loading/unloading commuter station. The high platforms help with speeding up loading/unloading. But the more the parking is limited (building residents competing with commuters for space) the more commuters will go somewhere else. While the $80 million development may or may not be good for the city I don't see it helping commuters as much as a building designed to be primarily a train station would help the commuters.

Hopefully I am wrong and there will be plenty of parking for everyone including garage parking for commuters. But I doubt it.

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justalurker66 wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 9:01 am
Hopefully I am wrong and there will be plenty of parking for everyone including garage parking for commuters. But I doubt it.
From the article:
NWI Times wrote:The plan, with the placeholder name 11th Street Central, includes a new train station, 208 luxury residential apartment homes in a 12-story high rise, over 10,000 square feet of commercial space and a 558-space parking garage.
558 spaces for 208 apartments, leaves at least 142 parking spaces for NICTD commuters assuming that all apartments are given two spaces. That's a ton given how little parking there was for the 11th Street station up to this point, with only a few dozen spaces. For comparison, Ogden Dunes has about 250 spaces presently.

Also, NICTD now owns all of the 11th-St facing lots between Pine and Cedar Streets. These were taken due to the elimination of WB 11th Street, which would landlock those parcels, as well as the space needs for the platforms themselves, which will extend well beyond the existing roadway. The remainder of those parcels could be easily converted to parking if the demand is there. Keep in mind that the new platforms will extend all the way to Spring Street from Franklin. It would not be out of the way at all to park further east, even on the old Bride Church Lot, which will also have plenty of area available once the tracks are realigned.
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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justin_gram »

It sure is a lot compared to what 11th street had before, but once Carroll closes... will it be enough? There have been weekends during the summer or during big events where it has been almost impossible for me to find a spot at Carroll and 11th, including the overflow lots at both.

Alex, do you know how many spots Carroll Ave has right now (including the overflow lot)?

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Saturnalia wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:13 pm
558 spaces for 208 apartments, leaves at least 142 parking spaces for NICTD commuters assuming that all apartments are given two spaces. That's a ton given how little parking there was for the 11th Street station up to this point, with only a few dozen spaces.

Also, NICTD now owns all of the 11th-St facing lots between Pine and Cedar Streets.
The original plan showed 565 parking spaces for 11th St. A garage with 402 standard spaces plus 22 compact, 10 ADA and 3 ADA Van (437 total) plus a surface lot extending east toward Cedar St (ending at the end of the ramp on the east end of the platforms) that provides 108 parking spaces (4 ADA). The initial plan also included keeping the 20 slots on the south side of 11th St.

The 437 car garage becomes a 558 car garage ... an increase of 121 slots for a 208 apartment complex.

Michigan City Code requires 1.5 slots per dwelling for Multiple-family dwellings. Technically that leaves 246 garage spaces and 108 surface spaces (128 with overflow) for commuters. Code also requires 1 space per 250 sq. ft. gross floor area for retail spaces ... so assign 40 slots for the commercial space part of the development. Perhaps they will not run out of spaces but the apartment plan does consume more slots than the development adds. (One could also argue that the number of slots required per dwelling may be low - but it is a standard.)
Saturnalia wrote:
Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:13 pm
Keep in mind that the new platforms will extend all the way to Spring Street from Franklin. It would not be out of the way at all to park further east, even on the old Bride Church Lot, which will also have plenty of area available once the tracks are realigned.
Nearly half way to Cedar unless the platform has shifted west. I don't see a break in the fence on the south side of the tracks until Lafayette St.

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Sunset on 10th St
2022-02-27 Sunset.jpg

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Nice picture.

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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justalurker66 »

I liked the concept of the street running going off into the sunset ... especially on the day when the sun set on the final day of passenger service on 10th St.

My collection of last day trains:
https://youtu.be/1Ef4kRmLIr8

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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justin_gram »

Great stuff!!!

So, that must have been you standing with us at the diamond for that sunset Amtrak. :D I had the scanner to your right.
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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justin_gram wrote:
Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:32 am
So, that must have been you standing with us at the diamond for that sunset Amtrak. :D I had the scanner to your right.
There is a reason why the screen goes black for a moment before the end of the Amtrak clip. :lol:

It was a good day. I have some other video to edit and post (one final drive westbound down 11th St).

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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by GP30M4216 »

This isn’t new, but it’s new on here. In 2009, while on a visit to Michigan City, Mackinac Mac and I had a bit of a street running adventure. Before drones and GoPro gave us vantages almost unattainable before, there was the trusty roll of masking tape and the Ford Taurus spoiler. Sit back and enjoy this wind noise free pacing video from the “takeoff” at the 11th street station down to US-20. You can skip ahead past the first minute unless you’re a big fan of Pontiac automobiles! :lol:

https://youtu.be/4LHLQRpBJRA

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Dude, that pacing video is even better than the drone footage. Video camera taped to the spoiler, awesome!
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Re: South Shore Double Track

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Nice ... I have seen some pacing behind the train but had not seen anyone pace in front of it. (I have seen people try to pass the train, which is crazy. I can't imagine how tense it must be to have vehicles close to the train.)

Depending on the new traffic controls (stop signs, etc.) fans should be able to replicate that shot in November. There will be a divider between the traffic lane and the double track but it is supposed to be a nice looking one (better than Metra Electric South Chicago Branch).

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justalurker66 wrote:
Thu Mar 03, 2022 7:17 pm
Nice ... I have seen some pacing behind the train but had not seen anyone pace in front of it. (I have seen people try to pass the train, which is crazy. I can't imagine how tense it must be to have vehicles close to the train.)

Depending on the new traffic controls (stop signs, etc.) fans should be able to replicate that shot in November. There will be a divider between the traffic lane and the double track but it is supposed to be a nice looking one (better than Metra Electric South Chicago Branch).
The divider is a concrete median-type wall with a fence on top, to deter trespassing. You won’t have good shots like that, unfortunately. Pacing, yes, obstructed to hell, absolutely.
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Re: South Shore Double Track

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We will just have to duct tape a tripod on top of the car to shoot over the fence. :D

(Ok, use cargo straps to tie the tripod to the roof rack on the van. At least modern cameras are not as heavy as the old VHS or even VHS-C machines.)

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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justalurker66 »

Both NICTD engines pulling a passenger car east
Both NICTD engines pulling a passenger car east
108 dead in tow headed to the shops
108 dead in tow headed to the shops
SS Freight 2007-2009 running light at 11th St
SS Freight 2007-2009 running light at 11th St

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Re: South Shore Double Track

Unread post by justalurker66 »

The picture I expected. Traffic lanes removed in Michigan City from Wabash to Michigan Ave except the three major crossings (traffic lights disabled) and Oak St. Nice to see the trains above too. :)
MC 220305 11th St.jpg
MC 220305 Mich St.jpg

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Re: South Shore Double Track

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justalurker66 wrote:
Sat Mar 05, 2022 11:33 pm
The picture I expected. Traffic lanes removed in Michigan City from Wabash to Michigan Ave except the three major crossings (traffic lights disabled) and Oak St. Nice to see the trains above too. :)
Wabash, Washington, Franklin, Lafayette, Oak and the Boulevard will be the only crossings remaining from downtown going east. All crossings that will be permanently closed are now allowed to be closed by the contractor, but roads that will ultimately remain open are supposed to remain open as much as possible - they will occasionally close when they build new track through them. Same goes for Sheridan, US 12/Lake-Porter County Line, etc.
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