Porter Junction rail project finally gets green light

[justalurker66]

your diagram is correct for switch location, but no idea on future switch to siding,can go between or west of the other 2 crossovers, and just now checking atcs, theres nothing lined in the whole area!

My diagram was wrong ... the ATCS display is correct. If the siding is extended to CP 479 it would need to be like this:

Code: Select all

    |             X
1---|-------/-\---|---1
    |      /   \
2---|---/-/-----\-|---2
    |  /          X
3---|-/

(If NS put the siding switch between the other two turnouts there would be no access to the siding from Track 1.)

BTW: It appears AWA and BWA from CP 479 overlap AEA and BEA from CP 466. The overlap is not 100% ... I believe it is from the signals at 474 to the signals at 471. This is in addition to the overlaps mentioned above. I have been watching trains passing (including a couple chased earlier today) and have observed the following occupancy for the five segments between CP 479 and CP 466:

Code: Select all

-1WA-|     |     |     |-1EA-
-AWA-|-AWA-|-AWA-|     |
     |     |-AEA-|-AEA-|-AEA-

(The same overlap applies for track 2)

I have also noticed that the AWA/BWA occupancies clear a couple of seconds after an eastbound train clears 1WA/2WA respectively. A few seconds delay in the relays.

[justalurker66]

BTW: I don't recognize which kit that screenshot is from ... is it a personal layout? The two kits I found on the official group have two segments between CP 482 and CP 479. They also have switches at CP 482 that if "normal" divert traffic away from the NS line.

[StupidFlee​t]

Signals are used to communicate to the dispatcher next to you without talking. Having a signal up says, "keep the train coming on this track".

This happens quite a bit at East Hamler on the Garrett Sub.

[LakeATCS]

BTW: I don't recognize which kit that screenshot is from ... is it a personal layout? The two kits I found on the official group have two segments between CP 482 and CP 479. They also have switches at CP 482 that if "normal" divert traffic away from the NS line.

That is a snippet from the private Lake Division site hosts web display. It's my decode from scratch.

As to the switches. Conrail loved to set the electronic normal position of certain switches to a physical reverse position. And this is what is going on with the CP 482 Porter interlocking. Electronic normal position for the Grand Rapids switch and the Porter branch is physically reverse. You can see this on the 1998 Conrail interlocking charts. Instead of making my layout like the official coordinator did. I simply reversed the bit mnemonics to get the layout to look right.

As for the block between CP 479 and CP 482. Electronically there are two duplicate bits for one physical block. One provided by 479 and one by 482. Instead of display both. I used the ATCSmon OR function to combine them. Here is a screenshot of my layout.

[justalurker66]

Thank you for sharing ... I run a home brew version that relies on scripting to show train location as accurately as possible. I try to show the intermediate signal blocks to remind myself how many trains could be between CPs. (It could be one train or five trains and show the same ATCS indication - where possible I "fix" that.) I appreciate the places where ATCS indications match signal blocks.

My layout is not intended to mimic the actual dispatcher display ... it is intended to show me where the trains are.

I have divided my displays by dispatcher ... although there are more CPs than I can fit on two lines in Chicago West. A busy section of line.

I am looking forward to the next change in Chicago West.

[Saturnalia]

Okay, so I've never directly gotten an answer to this: Chicago West controls everything about CP482, right?

So CHI West controls the EAS and WAS signals on all lines...the would make Laporte the westernmost signals that Chicago East could line...at least until the new signals, where I surmise West still has 482 and East has 479?

With how complex 482 is now and going to get, they could almost rebuild PO tower

[justalurker66]

With how complex 482 is now and going to get, they could almost rebuild PO tower

How complicated is CP 482 going to get? There were three Indiana Gateway projects in the neighborhood:
A) 479.3 Construct universal crossover
B) 482 Construct meet/pass siding near junction with Amtrak line
C) 485 Construct new control point and universal high speed crossover

A is the new CP 479
C is near US 12 ... and will get a universal crossover (currently CP 485 is Track 1 only with an intermediate on Track 2)
There is no mention of CP 483 ... which is Track 2/Siding only with an intermediate on Track 1.

One of the Indiana Gateway projects was listed as being on the Amtrak line ... I am reading "B" as that project - a meet pass siding for Amtrak.

So ... the construction at I 94 and the bridge construction at 484.5 --- how does that fit in?

[LakeATCS]

Here look at this.......

Get ready for your eyes to bug out. There are so many Chicago Line projects it's darn near crazy

http://www.nrcma.org/download.cfm?ID=28396

Chicago Echo Wye Connection
Expansion at 47th street
Chicago Line Crossovers. Add some at CP 515,513,509 and 453 (this is over and above the Indiana Gateway stuff)
Indiana Gateway Project
CN City Track (Kirk Yard) connection
East Hobart power switch
Goshen/Dunlap siding extension

[StupidFlee​t]

Okay, so I've never directly gotten an answer to this: Chicago West controls everything about CP482, right?

Yes.

[justalurker66]

Here look at this.......

Get ready for your eyes to bug out. There are so many Chicago Line projects it's darn near crazy

http://www.nrcma.org/download.cfm?ID=28396

Chicago Echo Wye Connection
Expansion at 47th street
Chicago Line Crossovers. Add some at CP 515,513,509 and 453 (this is over and above the Indiana Gateway stuff)
Indiana Gateway Project
CN City Track (Kirk Yard) connection
East Hobart power switch
Goshen/Dunlap siding extension

Thank you ... that is the most detail I have seen on the projects ... and it is good to see that it is more than the Gateway (and Elkhart to Goshen) underway.

[esprrfan]

482 is controlled by chicago west, CP479 is controlled by chicago east

[justalurker66]

The 479 crossover gets some use ... WB train from NS to CSX Porter Branch.

Crossover 479

ns479-20150323-0027CT.png (8.62 KiB) Viewed 7313 times

The crossover allowed the Porter Branch train to clear Track 1 for a train that was following it. The following train was cleared to cross over to Track 2 at CP 482.

12:41 CT

ns479-20150323-0041CT.png (8.72 KiB) Viewed 7313 times

A few minutes later ...

12:47 CT

ns479-20150323-0047CT.png (10.56 KiB) Viewed 7313 times

[Typhoon]

Crossovers were used this morning.

[tttodisp]

Any evidence of new signals or switches or roadbed work in these areas?

[LakeATCS]

Someone spotted a new PL signal on #4 at CP 506

[LakeATCS]

download.png

I was told the NS displays are like this because the NS system can't handle the electronic normal is physical reverse. So you get the strange layout you see.

Somewhere I have a shot from the old CR software CATDF. It shows Porter Junction like my display.

[justin_gram]

Yesterday they were working by Mineral Springs Rd (and i94 overpass) when I went by at about 9:45 EDT. They were digging.

[justalurker66]

I believe they are working on the I-94 overpass and drainage. Here is a view from the crossing on Saturday:

Mineral Springs Rd - I 94

Mineral Springs Rd - I 94

A couple of miles down the tracks the new bridges over the Little Calumet River:

Little Calumet River

The Indiana Gateway project does not list changes at CP 483. CP 485 is supposed to get a universal crossover. They are certainly not building a four track railroad between the two points.

[Saturnalia]

How did you get the photo of the river bridge?!?

They may not be putting it in now, but that bridge is now good for 4 tracks! I had heard some rumblings that NS would extend the Porter Remote to 485 to act as a long siding to park their trains as needed.

[justalurker66]

How did you get the photo of the river bridge?!?

Taken from Eastbound US 12 ... the turn lane for the cloverleaf entrance to the steel plant. I was able to stop on the bridge and take a few pictures out of the passenger window.

They may not be putting it in now, but that bridge is now good for 4 tracks! I had heard some rumblings that NS would extend the Porter Remote to 485 to act as a long siding to park their trains as needed.

On the South Shore I have seen them build a new bridge next to an old one then move the new bridge into the old bridge's position. This reduces downtime on the line. I would not be surprised to see the middle bridges removed, one at a time, and have the outer bridges moved in as replacements.