Michigan City Coaling Tower to be demolished in 2025

[MQT1223]

https://hometownnewsnow.com/local-news ... ling-tower

Get your shots now… the end is near for another Michigan City railroading landmark

[TSS]

I haven’t ever looked at it up close. Are there obvious signs of deterioration, such as spalling?

[SD80MAC]

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

[TSS]

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

Yes, I immediately thought of New Buffalo when this news came out. But (good news?) is at least that New Buffalo is 20-ish years younger.

[MQT1223]

I haven’t ever looked at it up close. Are there obvious signs of deterioration, such as spalling?

It might be what we can't see that has them concerned. I haven't heard or seen anything about the Augusta tower coming down and that's the other tower that spans the Michigan Line.

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

Seems like the only thing keeping Grand Haven standing is cost. One year they want to demo it the other they want to patch up the concrete and keep it. As long as I've been living on this side of the state you've never been allowed to walk into the fenced in area underneath the tower.

[Saturnalia]

A major problem with many of these towers is that they’re very early examples of steel reinforced concrete. The use of this material was still relatively new and engineers had only limited knowledge on how they would perform. As such, many are actually way overfilled with rebar, and many also lack detailed plans or the accuracy of said plans are in doubt. Good luck trying to implode something you don’t have the details for. Both the steel and concrete used varied a lot as well in their quality. Thus it’s quite possible that what they’re concerned with could either bring down the tower in say 5 years or maybe not for another 500. But they’ll obviously err on the side of caution.

We’ve come a long way in material science and standards. But those pioneers in the field are the giants whose shoulders upon which we stand today.

[Standard Railfan]

I haven’t ever looked at it up close. Are there obvious signs of deterioration, such as spalling?

It might be what we can't see that has them concerned. I haven't heard or seen anything about the Augusta tower coming down and that's the other tower that spans the Michigan Line.

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

Seems like the only thing keeping Grand Haven standing is cost. One year they want to demo it the other they want to patch up the concrete and keep it. As long as I've been living on this side of the state you've never been allowed to walk into the fenced in area underneath the tower.

The proximity of Michigan City to the industrial areas of Chicago and Northern Indiana may have exposed the tower in MC to higher levels of acid gas emissions. This can result in the concrete weathering much faster than the tower in Augusta and other locales.

[MQT1223]

I haven’t ever looked at it up close. Are there obvious signs of deterioration, such as spalling?

It might be what we can't see that has them concerned. I haven't heard or seen anything about the Augusta tower coming down and that's the other tower that spans the Michigan Line.

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

Seems like the only thing keeping Grand Haven standing is cost. One year they want to demo it the other they want to patch up the concrete and keep it. As long as I've been living on this side of the state you've never been allowed to walk into the fenced in area underneath the tower.

The proximity of Michigan City to the industrial areas of Chicago and Northern Indiana may have exposed the tower in MC to higher levels of acid gas emissions. This can result in the concrete weathering much faster than the tower in Augusta and other locales.

Without looking at it up close I wouldn’t have any idea. I’m curious as to what testing methods Amtrak used to determine this structure needed to be removed.

[GP30M4216]

Many of these structures are approaching 100 years old. One has to wonder how much longer some of the other iconic ones in the area (New Buffalo, Grand Haven, Baldwin, Augusta, Lansing, Durand) have left.

Seems like the only thing keeping Grand Haven standing is cost. One year they want to demo it the other they want to patch up the concrete and keep it. As long as I've been living on this side of the state you've never been allowed to walk into the fenced in area underneath the tower.

A lot of time the chemical/physical makeup on concrete on the interior is different that what is on the surface of a concrete or reinforced concrete structure. When steam fires were dropped and these towers clearly had no future, iron/steel apparatus including lifts, chutes, ladders, etc. on/in the towers were often removed for scrap dollars. Often, the metal was just cut at the surface. But I know of at least one tower in another state where someone was determined to get as much metal as possible and drilled into the concrete to chisel out internal steel. That tower has been gone for some time now, because water and freeze/thaw damage to interior concrete sped up the degredation much faster than exposed, undamaged concrete.

In pre-computer days, so many pieces of infrastructure were simply over engineered. Bridges, tunnels, viaducts, etc. were simply built bigger and stronger than they ever needed to be. I assume coal tower were similar.

Ironically, the GTW Grand Haven coal tipple is the only coal tower in Michigan listed in the National Register of Historic Places. This is honorary more than anything but it does have this designation whereas all other coal towers over active lines or former grades do not. Maybe that year was a good year for concrete patching. They seem to find it to be a valuable addition to the 1223 and rolling stock display. Not being able to walk underneath keeps people from doing something stupid....something people seem to be predicated to do on a regular basis.

You can read the National Register nomination materials here: https://npgallery.nps.gov/NRHP/AssetDet ... d374bd707e . Click the "Download this PDF" link; the helpful history starts on page 8 of the PDF.

[Saturnalia]

In pre-computer days, so many pieces of infrastructure were simply over engineered. Bridges, tunnels, viaducts, etc. were simply built bigger and stronger than they ever needed to be. I assume coal tower were similar.

Moreso was the lack of knowledge of how the materials interacted and would handle time. So they super-over-engineered them since they knew they didn't really know exactly what they were doing between materials, construction methods and time.

For instance, one of the first large steel-reinforced concrete buildings built was the Quincy #2 Hoist House in 1919. Meanwhile, the LS&I's concrete ore dock was built in 1912 and considered especially innovative for its use of steel-reinforced concrete. Funny enough, most of the reinforcing steel was old mine hoisting cable. Add that additional unknown to any calculations. That structure is a single monolith 1200 feet long, with no expansion joints and has endured over 100 years of use and abuse, with almost no degradation. That dock wants to be over a foot longer in the summer compared to winter, too!

[justalurker66]

As long as steel and concrete contract and expand at the same rate when heated and cooled there should be no problems.

[Saturnalia]

As long as steel and concrete contract and expand at the same rate when heated and cooled there should be no problems.

True, this definitely helps. But there are still differences between the superstructure and substructure to contend with also, as well as different heating rates for exposed steel versus the monolith. Plus any settlement of the overall structure. The dock rests on timber piles.

I'm quite impressed at what they built. In that specific case, aside from changing out the dumping gates, they're running 112 year old technology exactly the way they built it. If we still ran steam, I surmise these coal towers would be the same.