Possible Railroad Strike

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Chip
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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Saturnalia wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:40 pm
scraphauler wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:58 pm
sd70accsxt700 wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:38 pm
Curious to hear everyone's take on it now that the PEB has released there recommendations.
On 8/1 on this thread, I said the PEB goes nowhere. I was wrong - it went to worse than nowhere. Addressed some pay issues, but punted most quality of life issues and on page 32 of the office transcript dropped this duce in the punch bowl "The Carriers maintain that capital investment and risk are the reasons for their profits, and not any contribution by labor"

PEB recommendations will get voted down by the rank and file by a margin of 6:1 or greater. Chances of a fair compromise coming out of Congress are very slim - when push comes to campaign contribution shove, I see BOTH sides of the isle putting the overall economy AND their personal/political financial wellbeing over any meaningful change in the overall working conditions.

Furthermore, if the House and/or Senate flip to red (which is very possible), watch for threats of defunding of the DOT and FRA to begin changing rules on crew size.
If Congress does anything, it’ll be the imposition of the PEB, almost certainly.

Honestly I think it’s a decently fair compromise, yea it punts on some issues but ultimately what needs done gets done. Quality of life is a generational debate that will need done over many agreements both Section 6 and otherwise over several years.

Personally I don’t foresee the PEB recommendations, if they become a tentative deal, being voted down by the membership. Everybody talks a good talk in the crew room but these wage increases and massive back pay checks will get votes, once the ballot is in the hand of employees.
I've seen it first hand with the last 2 UAW contracts. Signing bonuses and large back paychecks are a massive carrot to dangle and usually get more takers than what it should. The majority sees dollar signs and are surprisingly willing to get trampled over.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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The quality of life issues are as old as railroading itself. Congress and the PEB can't solve that for them. The brotherhood has to make the same decision it's been making for decades. A work schedule that sucks and above average pay or a normal schedule with average pay. Money usually wins out.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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PatAzo wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:04 pm
The quality of life issues are as old as railroading itself. Congress and the PEB can't solve that for them. The brotherhood has to make the same decision it's been making for decades. A work schedule that sucks and above average pay or a normal schedule with average pay. Money usually wins out.
Deal with the devil…railroads like their cash but trade it for essentially owning their employees, and the employees trade their lifestyle for a pile of cash.

I’ve said this for years, and I’ll continue to say it. I don’t know how either side backs it out of the place it’s gotten.
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Chip
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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Saturnalia wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:52 pm
PatAzo wrote:
Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:04 pm
The quality of life issues are as old as railroading itself. Congress and the PEB can't solve that for them. The brotherhood has to make the same decision it's been making for decades. A work schedule that sucks and above average pay or a normal schedule with average pay. Money usually wins out.
Deal with the devil…railroads like their cash but trade it for essentially owning their employees, and the employees trade their lifestyle for a pile of cash.

I’ve said this for years, and I’ll continue to say it. I don’t know how either side backs it out of the place it’s gotten.
I don't think it will end well for the railroads. The court of public opinion is firmly on the side of the union on this one.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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The quality of life issue made the news back in the 90's+/- when drug testing showed that major collisions were being caused by fatigue not drugs and alcohol. The decision point then was a normal schedule at a lower wage or status quo. It is a deal with the devil.

The public do not influence shipping decisions so the Class One owners and the major shippers won't care much. The public will feel some sympathy up to the point it impacts their lives. Half don't vote and most don't know who their representatives are anyway. The guy working at distribution center for <$20/hr with AI bots judging his performance every day won't care too much about rail workers making 2-3x what he does.

The DNC progressive's don't care about the working man. Even if the DNC supports them they will be pawns in the game of tacking pork barrel into any pressing legislation. The GOP will oppose anything the Democrat's support. As soon as Trump announces his candidacy the pseudo-conservatives will distract the GOP with their DNC Panic and trying to win the 2020 election. Don't count of relief in congress unless you figure out how they can get paid too.

So that leaves a strike as the brotherhoods only real power...if the government lets them. Do they have a strike plan that will work? Work meaning how to cost the Class One owners money, that their members can sustain and the fed won't stop them from doing it.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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PatAzo wrote:
Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:24 am
The quality of life issue made the news back in the 90's+/- when drug testing showed that major collisions were being caused by fatigue not drugs and alcohol. The decision point then was a normal schedule at a lower wage or status quo. It is a deal with the devil.

The public do not influence shipping decisions so the Class One owners and the major shippers won't care much. The public will feel some sympathy up to the point it impacts their lives. Half don't vote and most don't know who their representatives are anyway. The guy working at distribution center for <$20/hr with AI bots judging his performance every day won't care too much about rail workers making 2-3x what he does.

The DNC progressive's don't care about the working man. Even if the DNC supports them they will be pawns in the game of tacking pork barrel into any pressing legislation. The GOP will oppose anything the Democrat's support. As soon as Trump announces his candidacy the pseudo-conservatives will distract the GOP with their DNC Panic and trying to win the 2020 election. Don't count of relief in congress unless you figure out how they can get paid too.

So that leaves a strike as the brotherhoods only real power...if the government lets them. Do they have a strike plan that will work? Work meaning how to cost the Class One owners money, that their members can sustain and the fed won't stop them from doing it.
Reference what the Canadian government did at *one* border crossing with armed military/police/federal action to stop a strike. If the Canadians do that at *one* site, how could the US justify doing that when the side striking is receiving a 20-30% compensation increase above inflation over the duration of the contract? In the Canadian conflict, employees had negative pay (debt) via lockdowns.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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The Canadian truck driver protest was over requirements for Covid vaccination in order to enter the U.S.? That's different than a strike by organized labor in the U.S.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Norfolk southern is already about to shut down intermodal terminals starting September 13th and at midnight on September 16th the whole system will be shut down. Huge loss when it comes to Norfolk southerns biggest money maker. It’s happening.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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So obviously this would effect interchange traffic but how would this effect CN and CP labor wise? What about KCS? I never hear their name brought up.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Right now the only thing happening is a bunch of grown men doing some chest thumping.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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DaveO wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:33 am
Right now the only thing happening is a bunch of grown men doing some chest thumping.
Incorrect. There are a bunch of grown men fighting for quality of life.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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When they take it public as both sides have, it's chest thumping.
I do hope they come to an agreement that recognizes those people doing the work are human, not machines.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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DaveO wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:00 pm
When they take it public as both sides have, it's chest thumping.
It is not, at this point it is a necessary evil of working under the RLA.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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The union is in a position of strength with quality of life being the final major issue. News reports tend to be brief and what is showing up is rail workers on call up to 14 days straight and unable to make doctor visits. This will put some pressure on the politicians to push the carriers for a settlement.

At the end of the day I think they need to be on the path to strike to get what they want.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Typhoon wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 10:30 pm
DaveO wrote:
Tue Sep 13, 2022 7:00 pm
When they take it public as both sides have, it's chest thumping.
It is not, at this point it is a necessary evil of working under the RLA.
Yup, since they now most probably will be at the hands of Congress, which is a political body and thus media attention is key.
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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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The CEO's will be happy if the government solves it.
That way they don't get blamed by Wall Street for doing something right for their employees.
Plus they still get credit for getting a contract when their next executive bonus round occurs.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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DaveO wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:57 pm
The CEO's will be happy if the government solves it.
That way they don't get blamed by Wall Street for doing something right for their employees.
Plus they still get credit for getting a contract when their next executive bonus round occurs.
Honestly it's probably what they’re banking on. The politicians are in a no-win situation here and it makes my heart happy.

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Chip wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:07 pm
The politicians are in a no-win situation here and it makes my heart happy.
Looks like the politicians might win. Tentative agreement reached, awaiting ratification after 20-hour talks brokered by Secretary of Labor Marty Walsh.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/15/business ... index.html

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Re: Possible Railroad Strike

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Steve B wrote:
Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:17 am
Chip wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:07 pm
The politicians are in a no-win situation here and it makes my heart happy.
Looks like the politicians might win. Tentative agreement reached, awaiting ratification after 20-hour talks brokered by Secretary of Labor Marty Walsh.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/15/business ... index.html
Writing on the wall was that Congress would simply be imposing the PEB, since there was no real talk of Congress creating their own package. Therefore labor leadership probably acting to save face, and keep in anything else they may have already extracted beyond the bounds of the PEB.

Brinksmanship at its finest. But boy, humans do love to push deadlines, don’t we all? Haha
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