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Had a Westbound, eastern DEEX coal load come into Toledo day, got recrewed at 285 in the siding after sitting a few hours, and went north. Was wondering if this is also part of the added business NS got when it took the coal business from CN?

That's what my notion is. Overnight in Swanton, OH on Feb. 11 into Feb. 12, I saw around 7 DEEX coal trains in 11 hours.

TrainWatcher wrote:Had a Westbound, eastern DEEX coal load come into Toledo day, got recrewed at 285 in the siding after sitting a few hours, and went north. Was wondering if this is also part of the added business NS got when it took the coal business from CN?

Yes. This is the business that the NS got back from the CSX ( & CN in part). Remember the NS was screwing with DTE over the coal trains and when the contract came up for renewal the NS just didn't bid and CSX got it by default (sole bidder).

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Yes. This is the business that the NS got back from the CSX ( & CN in part). Remember the NS was screwing with DTE over the coal trains and when the contract came up for renewal the NS just didn't bid and CSX got it by default (sole bidder).[/quote]

I can assure you the part about NS not bidding is not true at all. The only reason NS won the bid this time around is because DTE has had it with the level of "service" that CSX provides.

Mike H

And three years when contract is up for bid. Detroit Edison will have had it with NS service.

Can someone shed some light on why DTE was dissatisfied with CSX's service? They pick up a unit train of coal at the point of origin and run directly to the destination. What can go wrong that DTE would become dissatisfied with service?

AARR wrote:Can someone shed some light on why DTE was dissatisfied with CSX's service? They pick up a unit train of coal at the point of origin and run directly to the destination. What can go wrong that DTE would become dissatisfied with service?

Trains didn't go directly to destination. Toledo area. Mainly Lang yard was used as a mixing point. I don't think that was the problem. It was getting the different grades of coal on each train to the location. Some trains would take much much longer to get from mines to Toledo. Both western coal and eastern coal. Obviously CSX wasn't all to blame for this as BNSF handles most of the miles for the western coal.
Not sure if NS will do much better either. While attending a meeting today in Archbold Ohio with a window view three hundred feet from tracks. I was very surprised on the amount of traffic. I had heard CSX has been loosing other business to NS and seeing is believing.

JoJames wrote:And three years when contract is up for bid. Detroit Edison will have had it with NS service.

I wouldn't bet on this . The NS service was always better than the CSX. Not sure where they dropped the ball.

AARR wrote:Can someone shed some light on why DTE was dissatisfied with CSX's service? They pick up a unit train of coal at the point of origin and run directly to the destination. What can go wrong that DTE would become dissatisfied with service?

In another thread i mentioned that DTE had to maintain a 21 days supply ( on the ground as a backup, encase of delivery disruption ) and DTE had to dip into the back-up supply more that once to keep things working. Think , if you order a pizza and you don't get it in a timely manner (i.e.HOT ) then next time you'll call another pizza place. This is what happened.

Thanks JoJames and MD. I understand now. It'll be interesting to see if NS can improve. Also ,would you know why DTE doesn't get more coal in by ship?

A little off location but saw a loaded unit coal come around the curve in Elkhart Monday. I was surprised to see eastern coal going west. Most of the cars had 4P logo for Point Pleasant Power Plant. It's south of Kenosha Wi. on Lake Michigan.

With all the talk about NS and CSX both having their moments at running these coal trains, has CN ever had the coal business entirely? I don't mean like just before when they were sharing with CSX, I mean have they ever had the DTE business all to themselves east of Chicago and ran the trains to the plants via durand?

Yes, it seems like up until 5-6 years ago they were running coal trains across the South Bend / Flint Subs then down the Holly Sub and Shoreline Sub to the utility plants. Seems like they were averaging about one to two loaded coal trains a day back then. What I heard is when CSX got involved CN still received around the same amount of money without the wear and tear of going across their system.

atrainguy60 wrote:With all the talk about NS and CSX both having their moments at running these coal trains, has CN ever had the coal business entirely? I don't mean like just before when they were sharing with CSX, I mean have they ever had the DTE business all to themselves east of Chicago and ran the trains to the plants via durand?

AARR wrote:Yes, it seems like up until 5-6 years ago they were running coal trains across the South Bend / Flint Subs then down the Holly Sub and Shoreline Sub to the utility plants. Seems like they were averaging about one to two loaded coal trains a day back then. What I heard is when CSX got involved CN still received around the same amount of money without the wear and tear of going across their system.

atrainguy60 wrote:With all the talk about NS and CSX both having their moments at running these coal trains, has CN ever had the coal business entirely? I don't mean like just before when they were sharing with CSX, I mean have they ever had the DTE business all to themselves east of Chicago and ran the trains to the plants via durand?

If it's true it was just CSX who caused the coal traffic to be lost to NS, I wonder, IF NS was ever to lose the business sometime in the future like JoJames suggested, if there's any chance CN may get it back for themselves again since they have access at least to the Monroe and Trenton plants.