Toledo CUS track rationalization
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Toledo CUS track rationalization
I see NS has rationalized the track arrangement at the west end of the station.
I'm not sure of the date of this photo but this view depicts it more or less:
I looks like Tracks 1 and 3 are still through tracks while 2 is now completely cut off and 4 is stub end with access from the switch shown here at the west end.
My question is, what is the track arrangement out of view below (west) of what it shown here? I assume 1 and 3 come together almost beneath the bridge and then they join the #1 WB main track from there? Anyone have any other recent photos?
I'm not sure of the date of this photo but this view depicts it more or less:
I looks like Tracks 1 and 3 are still through tracks while 2 is now completely cut off and 4 is stub end with access from the switch shown here at the west end.
My question is, what is the track arrangement out of view below (west) of what it shown here? I assume 1 and 3 come together almost beneath the bridge and then they join the #1 WB main track from there? Anyone have any other recent photos?
Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
Yea that happened almost two years go, Jan of 2013
CSX_CO: 10 minutes, keep hoping the yard blows up and I won't have to go in tonight.
CSX_CO: Hump Hump Hump all night long, hump all night while I sing this song. See those cars, going to make them fly, sure hope the double o' eight is on time
CSX_CO: Hump Hump Hump all night long, hump all night while I sing this song. See those cars, going to make them fly, sure hope the double o' eight is on time
Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
If I had to guess, part of the reason they re did this was to get rid of the extra signal and power switch, so it be one less thing to connect to the new signals
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CSX_CO: 10 minutes, keep hoping the yard blows up and I won't have to go in tonight.
CSX_CO: Hump Hump Hump all night long, hump all night while I sing this song. See those cars, going to make them fly, sure hope the double o' eight is on time
CSX_CO: Hump Hump Hump all night long, hump all night while I sing this song. See those cars, going to make them fly, sure hope the double o' eight is on time
Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
iirc isn't it Amtrak that is "responsable" for maintaining the track within the station? (They could pay NS to do it or whatever but yeah) it's also not like they have to maintain it to high speeds obviously, I just feel like I heard Amtrak owns the track Within the depot.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
Amtrak did that work, I remember seeing Amtrak labeled track equipment and vehicles at the station at that time.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
Haha, the last time I was at Toledo CUS was December of 2012, and based on this photo I had taken when we arrived, I knew the work hadn't been done then yet.
I'm glad to see they kept two through tracks. Thanks for the track construction photos! Now there's just one signal to re-enter the main from the yard lead, right, instead of a signal on both tracks 1 and 3? I didn't know Amtrak maintained the station trackage, but I guess I'm not surprised as they do the same at several other passenger terminals.
I'm glad to see they kept two through tracks. Thanks for the track construction photos! Now there's just one signal to re-enter the main from the yard lead, right, instead of a signal on both tracks 1 and 3? I didn't know Amtrak maintained the station trackage, but I guess I'm not surprised as they do the same at several other passenger terminals.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
I have only used Amtrak out of Toledo twice in August 2009 October 2013. The station is a bit run down and the schedule is horrible, hence part of the reason traffic is so poor. Toledo is kind of the afterthought between Chicago and Pittsburgh, my trip last year the train was delayed 95 minutes on arrival in Toledo. No coherent explanation was given, they just kept changing the time by ten minutes whenever the clock reached the stated time for the train to arrive.
Amtrak employees are polite enough, but they rarely have useful information to share about why things are going the way they are. Its still better than flying, but that is mostly the comfort issue.
Amtrak employees are polite enough, but they rarely have useful information to share about why things are going the way they are. Its still better than flying, but that is mostly the comfort issue.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
I'd be the last person to defend Amtrak, but Toledo is the most heavily used station in Ohio - even with the crappy scheduling. If they ever got over their "endpoint mentality" and had a daylight train, those numbers would only grow.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
I have to agree, it seems as if the business model they use is based on running the minimum number of trains through each station instead of running trains through at the best times to attract customers. If I could catch the train in Toledo at 6 AM local time to go to Chicago and return late that night or early the next day it would be much more attractive. The way the schedule is set now I would be leaving at 7:25 PM and not getting on the return leg until 9:30 PM the following day. If I have a room booked in Chicago I would arrive late at night, sleep for a few hours, then have a full day of activities before departing the next night and arriving back in Toledo at 3:20 AM a full 32 hours after my original departure. That assumes no delays in transit, which are all too frequent on this route. The fact that parking at the Toledo terminal is not secure and is in a shady feeling part of town makes the idea of leaving a car in the lot very unattractive, so if you live outside the city as I do you have to either arrange for drop off and pick up at very odd hours or risk having your car vandalized/stolen.MSchwiebert wrote:I'd be the last person to defend Amtrak, but Toledo is the most heavily used station in Ohio - even with the crappy scheduling. If they ever got over their "endpoint mentality" and had a daylight train, those numbers would only grow.
I wonder what the cash flow consequences would be of running shorter more frequent trains between the two cities. I know longer trains are more fuel efficient, but by dividing the cars into multiple runs over the 24 hour day would greatly increase ridership IMO. Say three trains at eight hour intervals.
Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
You can't exactly make every station an "attractive time" for a customer espically if it's an intermediate stop. You also have to consider that the population of toledo is only about 10% of the population of Chicago, and only about 2% of that of new York city (toledo is about 213,000 while chicago is just over 2 million, and New York is over 8 million). The city may be the largest ridership in Ohio, but it still is only Toledo.DT&Ifan wrote: I have to agree, it seems as if the business model they use is based on running the minimum number of trains through each station instead of running trains through at the best times to attract customers.
You can do this.. On the Capitol limited you would depart at 5:22am, and arrive at 8:45 am into chicago, or depart on the lake shore limited at 6:15am and arrive at 9:45qm. You could then take either home leaving Chicago in the evening at 6:40pm on the Capitol and arrive at 11:39pm the same day, or get on the lake shore at 9:30pm and arrive at Toledo at 2:50am the next morning. I don't know what schedule you looked at but there's no WB trains out of Toledo at 7:25pm unless you have an epically late train (which has happened before lol)If I could catch the train in Toledo at 6 AM local time to go to Chicago and return late that night or early the next day it would be much more attractive. The way the schedule is set now I would be leaving at 7:25 PM and not getting on the return leg until 9:30 PM the following day.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
It's can't be everywhere in daylight, and since Amtrak doesn't pay the bills for the host railroads, their trains are at the mercy of the host's dispatchers.DT&Ifan wrote:I have only used Amtrak out of Toledo twice in August 2009 October 2013. The station is a bit run down and the schedule is horrible, hence part of the reason traffic is so poor. Toledo is kind of the afterthought between Chicago and Pittsburgh, my trip last year the train was delayed 95 minutes on arrival in Toledo. No coherent explanation was given, they just kept changing the time by ten minutes whenever the clock reached the stated time for the train to arrive.
Amtrak employees are polite enough, but they rarely have useful information to share about why things are going the way they are. Its still better than flying, but that is mostly the comfort issue.
Performance has gotten a lot better recently though.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
That the Toledo train station is not in the best part of town and there is not a guard present understandably makes some people nervous. Admittedly, I was the first time I left my car there for overnight parking. However, my wife and I take the train for weekend trips to Chicago on a regular basis and have not had any problems. Neither have my friends nor my family members who have done the same. There are also many positive comments on various websites by people from as far away as Columbus who leave their cars at Toledo regularly and have never had a problem. Finally, judging by the cars in the lot, many people with newer, fairly expensive cars feel comfortable parking there overnight.DT&Ifan wrote:The fact that parking at the Toledo terminal is not secure and is in a shady feeling part of town makes the idea of leaving a car in the lot very unattractive, so if you live outside the city as I do you have to either arrange for drop off and pick up at very odd hours or risk having your car vandalized/stolen.
The longterm lot at Toledo is well-lit and right next to the busy entrance of a Norfolk Southern building. With all the people going in and out, I do not think there is much opportunity for malicious intent. Yes, there is always a risk, but you can really say that for anywhere - including the suburbs where petty vandalism seems to be a right of passage for certain kids. The biggest obstacle for rail in Toledo is Amtrak's schedule but as others have pointed out, the market is not big enough to justify any significant changes.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
Every summer for nearly 20 years, we've left one of our cars in the lot adjacent to MLK Plaza for two weeks, and have never experienced a problem. Most every winter for nearly 20 years, we've left one of our cars in the lot adjacent to MLK Plaza for a weekend. Again, no problems. That isn't to say things can't go bad. A friend returned from a two week California trip a number of years ago to find that his car had been stolen. That was in the days before the Amtrak waiting area was moved downstairs to where it is now, and parking for the station was in the upper lot. The NS police are based in the building behind MLK Plaza, adjacent to the parking lot, and I suspect they keep a pretty close eye on things over there. I've even had them come over and question me when I've been standing on (or even near) the station platform at non-train times. They seem less concerned when they get close enough to see my brown changing to grey hair color, though.
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
Ohio Amtrak station statistics (FY2014)
(Ranking), City, Boardings + Alightings
(7th) Alliance 4,691
(6th) Bryan 6,597
(3rd) Cincinnati 13,681
(2nd) Cleveland 49,327
(5th) Elyria 6,721
(4th) Sandusky 9,840
(1st) Toledo 63,272
Total Ohio Station Usage: 154,129 (down 4.9% from FY2013)
This is Amtrak's station data for FY2014. Ridership is down at all Ohio stations a bit due in large part to the pitiful timekeeping of the Capitol and Lake Shore Limited through much of summer '14. You can see that far and away, Toledo and Cleveland make up over 2/3rds of the total Ohio traffic. Cincinnati's ridership would be higher, but the Cardinal also stops in the very wee hours and only runs three days a week.
A fairly large share of the Toledo traffic is Michigan-based, as it is the best station to head east from for all of SE and much of Central Michigan. Amtrak operates a dedicated Thruway connecting motorcoach which serves the Detroit, Dearborn, Ann Arbor, Jackson and E. Lansing Amtrak Stations and connect with the Capitol and Lake Shore. Most times I've ridden this Thruway service, the bus has been full or nearly full. These are 48 or 50 passenger motorcoaches. If you very conservatively estimate 30 passengers per trip, to and from Toledo, 365 days per year, that would be nearly 11,000 passengers right there. I'd guess the true Thruway ridership to be much higher. And of course this wouldn't count any passengers from Michigan who make their own arrangements to get to Toledo. I rode the Thruway bus very recently - it was a nearly brand new bus with wifi, 120v connections and comfy seats....not bad!
For the record, I've left my car at the Toledo station for a week at a time on a couple occasions, and never had a problem. The constant movement of NS and NS Police personnel in the area really helps keep an eye on things. I've found the Toledo Amtrak agents to be friendly and helpful, and yes, sometimes not knowledgeable about the latest train arrival times, but they do have a stop on one of the busiest mainlines on the country - things do happen and they aren't always the first informed. The Toledo station is a cool architectural structure from the outside and the renovated Amtrak waiting room on the lower level isn't a bad place to wait for a train. When I recently arrived on the Capitol Limited from Washington DC, we were 12 minutes early. The train departed for Chicago on time. The Lake Shore arriving after us was about 35 minutes late, but had been about that late since Buffalo. I'm glad to see timekeeping is improving as of late!
(Ranking), City, Boardings + Alightings
(7th) Alliance 4,691
(6th) Bryan 6,597
(3rd) Cincinnati 13,681
(2nd) Cleveland 49,327
(5th) Elyria 6,721
(4th) Sandusky 9,840
(1st) Toledo 63,272
Total Ohio Station Usage: 154,129 (down 4.9% from FY2013)
This is Amtrak's station data for FY2014. Ridership is down at all Ohio stations a bit due in large part to the pitiful timekeeping of the Capitol and Lake Shore Limited through much of summer '14. You can see that far and away, Toledo and Cleveland make up over 2/3rds of the total Ohio traffic. Cincinnati's ridership would be higher, but the Cardinal also stops in the very wee hours and only runs three days a week.
A fairly large share of the Toledo traffic is Michigan-based, as it is the best station to head east from for all of SE and much of Central Michigan. Amtrak operates a dedicated Thruway connecting motorcoach which serves the Detroit, Dearborn, Ann Arbor, Jackson and E. Lansing Amtrak Stations and connect with the Capitol and Lake Shore. Most times I've ridden this Thruway service, the bus has been full or nearly full. These are 48 or 50 passenger motorcoaches. If you very conservatively estimate 30 passengers per trip, to and from Toledo, 365 days per year, that would be nearly 11,000 passengers right there. I'd guess the true Thruway ridership to be much higher. And of course this wouldn't count any passengers from Michigan who make their own arrangements to get to Toledo. I rode the Thruway bus very recently - it was a nearly brand new bus with wifi, 120v connections and comfy seats....not bad!
It's not so much of an endpoint mentality as it is a connectivity mentality....sure, a train leaving Chicago eastbound at 9am would go thru Toledo at Lunchtime and overnight across PA or NY in time for a middle of the night arrival on the east coast, but any passengers transferring to that train in Chicago from any other Amtrak service - local or long distance, would have to spend a day/night in Chicago first. Both inside and outside the NEC, a significant number of Amtrak passengers transfer one or more times between Amtrak routes. The EB Capitol and Lake Shore leave Chicago when they do and go thru Toledo when they do because many passengers are boarding those trains in Chicago from other Amtrak arrivals earlier in the day. In the old days, NYC could justify other trains besides its star performers to carry this middle-of-route traffic at a more convenient time, but if you look at a 20th Century Limited Schedule, those arrival times weren't always convenient in Toledo, either.I'd be the last person to defend Amtrak, but Toledo is the most heavily used station in Ohio - even with the crappy scheduling. If they ever got over their "endpoint mentality" and had a daylight train, those numbers would only grow.
For the record, I've left my car at the Toledo station for a week at a time on a couple occasions, and never had a problem. The constant movement of NS and NS Police personnel in the area really helps keep an eye on things. I've found the Toledo Amtrak agents to be friendly and helpful, and yes, sometimes not knowledgeable about the latest train arrival times, but they do have a stop on one of the busiest mainlines on the country - things do happen and they aren't always the first informed. The Toledo station is a cool architectural structure from the outside and the renovated Amtrak waiting room on the lower level isn't a bad place to wait for a train. When I recently arrived on the Capitol Limited from Washington DC, we were 12 minutes early. The train departed for Chicago on time. The Lake Shore arriving after us was about 35 minutes late, but had been about that late since Buffalo. I'm glad to see timekeeping is improving as of late!
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
There used to be a Toledo Police office-thingy in the station building as well, down the hallway between the waiting room & the bus area. It's been a while since I walked down that hallway, is that still there?
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Re: Toledo CUS track rationalization
It is still there, but I've got no idea when it's manned.PerRock wrote:There used to be a Toledo Police office-thingy in the station building as well, down the hallway between the waiting room & the bus area. It's been a while since I walked down that hallway, is that still there?
peter