Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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AARR
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Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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MC&S started in 1997. The coal traffic to Selfridge Air National Guard base had stopped when they converted to natural gas. With the loss of a little over 100 cars a year of coal, CN was no longer interested in the 6 mile branch.

With no other freight on the line, it seemed destined for abandonment and removal. However, a rail enthusiast was watching light density lines around the state succeed with dinner train excursions and special events including Blissfield, Coopersville and Walled Lake.

So a proposal was made for the 5.7 mile line from Elizabeth Rd. Jct. to the end of the line in the middle of SANG. Also proposed was a one mile section of the "Water Plug" siding from Elizabeth Rd. Jct. to Mt. Clemens Station. CN was willing to sell the Selfridge Branch for $1 but would not sell the one mile Water Plug siding to the station.

Excursion and other entertainment service started soon after. A handful of old heavy weight passenger cars of various heritages were acquired and renovated. GTW GP9 4930 (Blt. 1958) was acquired and painted in old gold and green Maple Leaf colors. A FP9A Unit (ex-AC / nee-CN 1755, Blt. 1957) was also acquired and painted in the same gold and green Maple Leaf colors. They operated in a push-pull style.

Attendance exceeded expectations. Without a "home" site, parking instead was set up at the old Farmers Jacks along Gratiot Ave. and in Joy Blvd. Park.

Selfridge permitted rides to the end of the line in Selfridge. Approximately half of the track was inside the base. There were semi-strict rules that had to be followed inside the base but there was never a problem.

There were dinner trains, children specials, Holiday specials, air show commuters, special specials, etc. Despite the short distance it was very popular and made a profit.

Then 9/11 happened and immediately Selfridge stopped allowing MC&S onto base property. Overtime this hit attendance and it dropped significantly. If we were to operate inside Selfridge MC&S insurance would have skyrocketed too.

More later......
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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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With Selfridge off-limits about a dozen pieces of equipment and two engines had to find another staging area. It was decided to store them near Elizabeth Rd. Jct. There were still operations but it was scaled back and numbers reduced. In it's prime typically there was a five car consist between the engines with one of the cars the kitchen prep area. Now a typical consist was two or three cars and one of those the kitchen car.

In 2002 CN was rebuilding its Mt. Clemens Sub and the mile Water Plug siding to Mt. Clemens Station became available since it was targeted for removal by CN. Realizing the potential to have the station on its route MC&S took out a loan and acquired this section. Whereas the 5.7 mile branch sold for $1 the one mile section of the Water Plug Siding sold for $250,000. A connection with CN would remain at Elizabeth Rd. as long as MC&S paid for the switch.

The station was in poor condition and needed renovating. Must of it was accomplished with volunteers and donations but the loan included extra for this purpose.

Fortunately, with the addition of the Mt. Clemens Station traffic levels took off again. There was the issue of where to store the equipment when not in use. The only passing sidings and storage tracks are in Selfridge where we are not allowed. So the excess equipment was moved to the Richmond, Romeo & Rochester (RR&R) and stored in on one of the unused passing sidings in Armada by the old station.

In 2008, President Obama took office and the military feared there would be budget cuts. In order to gain good Public Relations Selfridge opened its base again to MC&S. Attendance, which had been very good with the addition of the Mt. Clemens Station, grew more rapidly with access to the base again. The base also allowed MC&S two passing sidings and a storage track so its equipment was brought back from RR&R.

It can be noted that at this time RR&R would occasionally loan its GTW 1776 unit to MC&S for various special excursions including Memorial Day, Independence Day, Air Shows, Selfridge Museum Trips and others.

Around 2015 the KC135 squadron at Selfridge was selected to be an Air Force wing refueling outfit. At this time all jet fuel arrived by pipeline or truck. With the new official military title it was determined that the rail option should be reopened (jet fuel had not been shipped into Selfridge since the 1950's after the pipeline was built). The pipeline remains the primary source of shipping in jet fuel but about every month a five-car block of jet fuel arrive at Elizabeth Rd. Jct. The cars are taken to the tank farm on the west side of Selfridge and unloaded. The next day they are taken back to Elizabeth Rd. Jct. for CN to pick up. Even though this only amounts to 60 or so cars per year the profit exceeds a months worth of excursion and passenger trains. This is important as you will see.

The COVID pandemic shutdown passenger operations for a solid year and limited attendance for another year. It was not until 2022 that normal services returned. The little bit of jet fuel traffic kept the line open during this period. There was very little non-freight revenue during the pandemic. Mostly online souvenir sales and donations. Even with limited attendance the second year the freight revenue was significant for keeping the line open.

Next a rundown of the types of passenger trains offered.....
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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In addition to the FP9A and GP9 MC&S owns:
- 6 older version passenger cars that have been renovated and equipped with handicap and safety accessories
- 1 kitchen car (an old baggage car modified)
- 2 ex-GTW cabooses
- 3 ex-GTW box cars that were stored at the Russell Schmidt industrial park on 23 Mile Rd. in Chesterfield. One is a 40' Maple Leaf. One is a 50' Maple Leaf. The last is a 50' passenger scheme with passenger truck.

Typical operations include:
Sundays:
- Brunch train
- Afternoon run tailored for kids
- Evening dinner train with various entertainment (comedy, music, murder mystery, etc.)

Tuesday through Thursday there typically are no scheduled trains unless there is a holiday, school specials, special needs people, etc.

Friday:
- An afternoon run for kids (very popular with homeschoolers)
- Evening dinner train with entertainment

Saturday:
- Morning train focused on railfans and history buffs with guests to make presentations
- Lunch train
- Afternoon train for kids
- Evening dinner train with entertainment

Recently a Polar Express train was added to the Christmas line up which also includes St. Nicholas/Santa Claus.

The every-other year SANG air show is HUGE. There is the shuttling of people all day long between Selfridge and parking lots at Joy Park, Gratiot Ave. and Mt. Clemens Station.

At this time the MC&S is doing well, meeting its financial objectives and earning a profit.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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FP9A 1755 is coming back from a complete overhaul. It is currently in Toledo. It should go to CN Lang Yard, CN road freight to Port Huron then CN local freight to Mt. Clemens.
http://railroadfan.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38574
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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Engine Roster

Owner: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge 4930
Model: EMD GP9 Built As: GTW 4930 (GP9)
Serial Number: 24969 Order No: 5585
Frame Number: 5585-1 Built: 11/1958
Other locos with this serial: GTW 4930(GP9)
Image
Image
Not the correct engine but shows Maple Leaf scheme

Owner: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge 1755
Model: EMD FP9A Built As: CN 6531 (FP9A)
Serial Number: A1203 Order No: C230
Frame Number: Built: 5/1957
Notes: Ex-CN 6531, to PREX 1755
Other locos with this serial: AC 1755(FP9A) VIA 6531(FP9A) PREX 1755(FP9A) SBVR 1755(F7A) PESX 1755(FP9A) CN 6531(FP9A)
Image
Image
Not the correct engine but shows Maple Leaf scheme

Ridership continues to be high. Even with the new threat of Covid there is no letup in attendance, in fact, it continues to grow. At this time masks are voluntary. MC&S is watching and if necessary, will quickly make operating changes to ensure the safety of their customers.

About once a month a five-car block of jet fuel is handled for the KC-135 Wing at Selfridge.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

Unread post by AARR »

The season is going well for MC&S. Ridership is high and satisfaction is too.

At this time there are no Covid-19 protocols that are required to be taken. Everyone is free to decide for themselves what makes the most sense.

Note that the online published schedule at MC&S website was hacked by someone identified as "~Z~" claiming that MC&S is not a real railroad. Please ignore that comment. Come on down and have a nice old fashion ride.

Freight traffic remains a five-car block of jet fuel per month. Even with the very high ridership, the revenue from this once-a-month traffic is higher than the passenger services.

Note that Richmond, Romeo & Rochester GP38ac 1776 will pull trains during the July 4th weekend. Also, Selfridge will have its museum displays clean and ready for everyone's patronage.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

Unread post by GRHC »

AARR wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:23 am
The season is going well for MC&S. Ridership is high and satisfaction is too.

At this time there are no Covid-19 protocols that are required to be taken. Everyone is free to decide for themselves what makes the most sense.

Note that the online published schedule at MC&S website was hacked by someone identified as "~Z~" claiming that MC&S is not a real railroad. Please ignore that comment. Come on down and have a nice old fashion ride.

Note that Richmond, Romeo & Rochester GP38ac 1776 will pull trains during the July 4th weekend. Also, Selfridge will have its museum displays clean and ready for everyone's patronage.
Will there be any fireworks displays in conjunction with the fourth of July train rides?
I must say I’m sorry to hear about the website incident you would think this Z fellow would have better things to do than hack a paper tourist railroad website.

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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There will be fireworks now. That is a great idea. MC&S should hire you as the Entertainment Manager.
GR H & C wrote:
Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:05 pm
Will there be any fireworks displays in conjunction with the fourth of July train rides? I must say I’m sorry to hear about the website incident you would think this Z fellow would have better things to do than hack a paper tourist railroad website.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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What kind of special plans does the MC&S have in conjunction with the air show this weekend?

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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There will be a round trip every 2 hours beginning at 7am at Mt. Clemens Station with additional pickups at Gratiot Ave. North and Joy Blvd. Park. The final departure leaves Selfridge at 5pm. There is a $15 per person charge for the round trip. Seniors and children 5-12 are $10. Veterans and children under 5 ride free.

Richmond, Romeo & Rochester GP38AC 1776 will be at the west end facing west.

Mt. Clemens & Selfridge FP9 1755 will be at the east end facing east.

The diner car will be open but limited to snack foods only.

Each of the four passenger cars has a restroom.

Tickets can be purchased online or at the ticket booths at the three stops.

First come first serve.
GR H & C wrote:
Fri Jul 08, 2022 7:48 pm
What kind of special plans does the MC&S have in conjunction with the air show this weekend?
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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The summer schedule ended after Labor Day weekend and MC&S is now in its Fall schedule. Ridership continues to be strong, but polls show inflation is appearing to hold back ridership. Speaking of inflation, diesel fuel is extremely expensive, and MC&S is considering a surcharge just like the freight railroads do.

Due to military tensions around the world the KC135 squadron has been busier than usual. Normally they receive one five-car block of jet fuel per month (they rest arrives by pipeline) but in August a second block of five cars was received and a second one is expected before the end of September. Currently two five-car blocks per month appears to be a regular movement the rest of the year.

GP9 4930 will be shipped to Peaker Services for an engine overhaul and to GLC Owosso shops for an overall check-out. While it is out, RR&R 1776 will be a regular on the MC&S.

Having three very distinct engines not only brings out the passengers/patrons but the railfans too. MC&S is railfan friendly but there have been a couple cases of theft (unfortunately to FP9 1755 and GP38AC 1776) so please refrain from going on railroad property otherwise you will be stopped and detained.

Caboose Roster
• Ex Santa Fe
Image
• Ex DT&I
Image
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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The RR&R, MC&S and PHSC are now in the same family under RR&R.

Regular and Special Event trips went well in 2022. Although, MC&S management will have to revisit their schedule next time there is an airshow as there was far higher demand for rides than supply and it got messy.

GP9 4930 is back from Peaker so both it and FP9 1755 are overhauled and ready to go for several more years.

The KC 135 Squadron is forecasting 8-10 cars of jet fuel per month for the foreseeable future as tensions are rising around the world keeping the squadron busy. Usually, the jet fuel will arrive twice a month in a 4-5 car block.

Ticket price includes hot dogs, chips and a soda. There is a growing demand for a healthier alternative, so inexpensive fare is being researched.

2023 should be a very good year.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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PHSC was sold to LSRC leaving RR&R and MC&S. During the winter months one crew will be used to operate both lines.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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The summer schedule is in full swing, and business is brisk.

In addition to the regular weekend schedule beginning Friday at noon with a school special and ending Sunday evening with a dinner train/mystery, there will be July 4th/Independence Day trips from Mt. Clemens Station to the Selfridge Museum on Monday and Tuesday starting at 9am with the last run leaving the museum at 4pm. Both nights will have a patriotic dinner train leaving at 6pm. The Monday train will include fireworks show at Joy Boulevard Park at 9pm.

RR&R 1776 will be heading up the July 4th trains facing west. Best picture spots or north of the station, Big Lots parking lot by North Gratiot Avenue and Joy Park. For those who visit the Selfridge Museum there is a good photo location at the passenger EXIT ramps.

GP9 4930 will be assigned for Monday, July 3rd and FP9 1755 Tuesday, July 4th. Both engines will face east.

The cabooses will be tucked in right behind the engines.

Freight service continues to consist of a couple of four to five blocks of aviation fuel per month.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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The summer schedule remains strong. Here is the usual schedule:
• Friday, Saturday & Sunday – The Selfridge Military Air Museum Transit.
o 10am departure from the Mt. Clemens station with additional pickups at North Gratiot Ave. and Joy Boulevard Park. Its destination is the Selfridge Military Air Museum. Arrives at the museum by 11am. Departs Selfridge at 1pm reaching Mt. Clemens station at 2pm. It repeats this trip at 2:30pm returning by 6pm. Includes snack fare and narration of the area’s history.
• Friday, Saturday & Sunday – Dinner & Entertainment.
o Loading begins at 6:30pm with a 7pm departure. Pickups at North Gratiot Ave. and Joy Boulevard Park. Travels to end of line at the old coal docks. Returns to Mt. Clemens station by 10pm. Includes a five-course dinner and alcoholic drinks. Friday’s show is rated PG. Saturday’s is rated G. Sunday’s is PG-13.
• Saturday & Sunday – Breakfast and History narration.
o Loading begins at 6am with departure at 6:30am. Pickups at North Gratiot Ave. and Joy Boulevard Park. Travels to end of line at the old coal docks. Returns to Mt. Clemens station by 9:30am. Several delicious breakfast options and narration by highly educated Mt. Clemens and Selfridge historian.
• Special runs operate on Holidays and special events (ex. Air Show).

Freight operation occurs twice a month during the week whenever CN sets out the aviation fuel tank cars. They have 24 hours to pick them up from the interchange, deliver them to Selfridge, unload the tank cars (performed by Selfridge personnel) and return them back to CN for pick up. If they miss the stated time there is a demurrage charge for each 24 hour period.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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AARR
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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

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Dinner and excursion traffic continues to be robust. The Christmas/New Year/Holiday trains were well attended. The Selfridge Military Museum Transit is marginal and has not drawn the visitors that was hoped for yet. Several groups are working to grow this opportunity.

GP9 4930 and FP9 1755 (both in gold and green colors), RR&R 1776 and both cabooses continue to be popular with fans. There is some talk about painting one side of GP9 4930 in GTW blue and red colors and one side of FP9 1755 in CN black and red colors. The cabooses will remain in their red attire.

Here area few pictures of some passenger equipment:
Passenger (Dining) Car GTW 899
Image

Baggage (Kitchen) Car GTW 1675
Image

Passenger (Dining & Storage for Strollers, etc.) Car GTW 1842
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/112983/IMG_0809.JPG

Passenger (Dining) Cars GTW 4813 and 4828
Image

Freight operations is up and down as the KC135 squadron is frequently assigned at other bases due to world conflicts. However, Michigan lawmakers are pressing the Air Force to select Selfridge Air National Guard base in Macomb County for a new squadron of KC-46A refueling tankers, as the Pentagon looks to retire the aging KC-135 Stratotankers currently hosted by the base. In a letter signed by nearly the entire Michigan delegation plus Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, Sen. Gary Peters of Bloomfield Township says Selfridge is the "ideal" location and candidate for a squadron of 12 KC-46s, as well as for new fighter aircraft to replace the base's A-10 squadron.

KC135 currently assigned to Selfridge but scheduled for retirement
Image

KC46’s that the Pentagon is being urged to replace the KC135’s with
Image

Passenger services, in all their forms, are marginally profitable but take a lot of effort and participation by volunteers to make it work. Freight service is easy and much more profitable even when traffic volumes are as low as five cars per month.

It may be of interest that Selfridge Spur is 1.35% ruling westbound grade at what the railroad names Franklin Hill - named for the farm that once occupied both sides of the Right of Way. Gratiot Hill is just a name applied by local rail buffs. In the days when Selfridge received coal and the sugar beet plant shipped by rail, the grade was inconsequential in diesel days (SW1200's and GP9's). If the rails were wet, steam engines (0-8-0's and 2-8-0’s) may have had the rare issue, but most marched right up. The grade may look stiff as viewed looking eastward from North Gratiot Avenue, but it was easier than it looked.
PatC created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Don Simon no more they want AARR I'm chopped liver, well if you want AARR this is what I'll give ya, bad humor mixed with irrelevant info that'll make you roll your eyes quicker than a ~Z~ banhammer...

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Re: Mt. Clemens & Selfridge (MC&S)

Unread post by David Collins »

AARR wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:33 am
KC135 currently assigned to Selfridge but scheduled for retirement
Image

KC46’s that the Pentagon is being urged to replace the KC135’s with
Image
Urging but Boeing is having some serious issues with quality control as always :(

Also the 46 is mainly intended to replace the KC10, the 135’s will be phased out when there’s a larger alternative to my understanding.
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