G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

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NS3322
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G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by NS3322 »

Per Trains Magazine and Railway Age, G&W has made an agreement with the EPA to destroy 88 locomotives due to improper rebuilds and record keeping. All are set to be destroyed/scrapped by the end of 2025.
https://www.railwayage.com/regulatory/g ... ettlement/

Source: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-relea ... 6/download
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by AARR »

Thank you for posting this.

I didn't see any engines from the MI lines on either lists or did I miss something?
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by ConrailDetr​oit »

Wonder if the environmental damage from the process of scrapping the locomotive; transporting, shredding, shipping, remelting, etc, then needing to extract more resources from the earth to build a new locomotive that emits lower emissions is lower than keeping an older, more pollution emitting locomotive going.

Same concept with buying a brand new car with higher fuel economy more frequently, versus keeping a used one going for longer with lower fuel economy.

Regardless, someone's social status or career will gain from the settlement.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by NS3322 »

AARR wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:56 am
Thank you for posting this.

I didn't see any engines from the MI lines on either lists or did I miss something?
Yep, you are correct.

I believe the only locomotive on the list with a Michigan connection is GC 1713, which is ex-GTW 6046/D&TSL 76/DTSL 46. This was the DTSL Bicentennial Unit.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by GTW Dude »

“According to the DOJ, the consent decree, which also requires G&W remove from service and permanently destroy 88 older locomotives that are not required to meet any EPA emission standards“

That’s an unbelievably stupid excuse to scrap older locomotives. If you want to punish the G&W by forcing them to correctly rebuild their locomotives to current emission standards and keep proper emission track records that’s fine. But unnecessarily scrapping older locomotives that aren’t forced to comply with modern emission standards for no good reason other than to “punish” is redundant.

It’s a shame that D&TSL 46 will be scrapped. It was pretty unique for a bicentennial scheme to be placed on a GP7 IMO. I’m surprised the D&TSL bicentennial caboose made it into preservation.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by NS3322 »

GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:37 am
“According to the DOJ, the consent decree, which also requires G&W remove from service and permanently destroy 88 older locomotives that are not required to meet any EPA emission standards“

That’s an unbelievably stupid excuse to scrap older locomotives. If you want to punish the G&W by forcing them to correctly rebuild their locomotives to current emission standards and keep proper emission track records that’s fine. But unnecessarily scrapping older locomotives that aren’t forced to comply with modern emission standards for no good reason other than to “punish” is redundant.

It’s a shame that D&TSL 46 will be scrapped. It was pretty unique for a bicentennial scheme to be placed on a GP7 IMO. I’m surprised the D&TSL bicentennial caboose made it into preservation.
I think G&W agreed to this to avoid paying more $$$$$$$.

The D&TSL bicentennial caboose is in private ownership in Augusta, MI, which I count as semi-preserved.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by MP73point4 »

While not Michigan, I note the list includes a couple interesting units. Portland & Western SD-7 1501, the Albany, OR yard switcher holding on in battered SP paint. And, P&W/Willamette & Pacific GP-9 1801 painted in a rendition of SPs Black Widow Scheme. Sad to lose either.
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

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And, the war against the diesel engine continues............

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by LansingRailFan »

This could conceivably drive up prices for used smaller locomotives for independent shortlines.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by Schteinkuh »

LansingRailFan wrote:
Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:11 pm
This could conceivably drive up prices for used smaller locomotives for independent shortlines.
Not could, it will.
GTW Dude wrote:
Thu Jan 26, 2023 11:37 am
“According to the DOJ, the consent decree, which also requires G&W remove from service and permanently destroy 88 older locomotives that are not required to meet any EPA emission standards“

That’s an unbelievably stupid excuse to scrap older locomotives. If you want to punish the G&W by forcing them to correctly rebuild their locomotives to current emission standards and keep proper emission track records that’s fine. But unnecessarily scrapping older locomotives that aren’t forced to comply with modern emission standards for no good reason other than to “punish” is redundant.
G&W made a deal with the devil to get some extra money, and didn't hold up their end of the deal. So this is the EPA's way of telling the RR industry "f around and find out", basically. Really is a shame that the EPA didn't fine G&W for tens of millions of dollars instead though, that money could've gone towards developing affordable T4 compliant shortline power if they really cared about the future. Maybe G&W would've had to shrink the orange empire too.
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by Schteinkuh »

Reading the DOJ report again, G&W was given a warning back in March of 2019 that they ignored, and now they're here. Nice.
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by joeyuboats »

So, now some old,rare locos have to be destroyed, because a corporation went too far and got out of line. Not to mention the locos are still useful. OK, got that. ?????

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by DaveO »

they broke the law. they got caught. you need to be dumping on g&w. it' their fault after all.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by joeyuboats »

Oh, I am sure that this is a BIG mess that G&W got itself into. Now they will find out what happens when you play both ends against the middle. My point is that there are some rare locos that will meet the torch, and G&W will pay dearly to replace to replace them, all the while knowing that they did it to themselves.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by redcrumbox »

Does RLK 4001(GP9) operate in Canada for the last 20 years? How could this violate the US? If I was G&W I'd tell the EPA to go pound salt.
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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by chapmaja »

redcrumbox wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:34 am
Does RLK 4001(GP9) operate in Canada for the last 20 years? How could this violate the US? If I was G&W I'd tell the EPA to go pound salt.
Where was the rebuild done?

Also, this was an agreement between the railroad and the EPA, meaning they had to agree to this.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by chapmaja »

I wonder what the definition of destroy will be. Does it mean a complete scrapping of the unit, or does it mean removal and destruction of all the power assemblies and electronics, while still leaving the shell of the unit available for preservation.

This could be interesting for the ex-D&TSL 46, which could be something a preservationist may want, as to my knowledge nothing from the D&TSL is preserved.

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by Talk »

chapmaja wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:49 am
I wonder what the definition of destroy will be. Does it mean a complete scrapping of the unit, or does it mean removal and destruction of all the power assemblies and electronics, while still leaving the shell of the unit available for preservation.

This could be interesting for the ex-D&TSL 46, which could be something a preservationist may want, as to my knowledge nothing from the D&TSL is preserved.
Destroy is implying that the locomotive could never be operated again. If that's the case, G&W could just remove the engine block and call it good. I'm wondering if there was enough effort could railfans get G&W to save the carbody & frame? further, could a private owner later put a new block into it and legally run it again? Unfortunately, The wording the the document is strongly implying that scrapping this the course of action that would be taken however.

Retirement Schedule:

Phase 1 includes 12 locomotives and had to be done by 12/31/2022
Phase 2 includes 17 locomotives and has to be done by 12/31/2023
Phase 3 includes 28 locomotives and has to be done by 12/31/2024
Phase 4 includes 31 locomotives and has to be done by 12/31/2025



The Following Locomotives were taken out of service BUT will be returned to service once a "valid EPA-issued certificate" is filed.

PNWR GP39-2 2303
AGR SD40-2 (?) 3212
CCH SD40-2 3348
CCH SD40-2 3349
CCH SD40-2 3350
HAL SD40-2 3351
CAGY SD40-2 3353
RCPE SD40-2 3463
IORY SD40-2 3494
ARZC SD40-2 3999
OHCR SD40-2 4023

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Re: G&W EPA Settlement, 88 locomotives to be destroyed

Unread post by GTW Dude »

Talk wrote:
Wed Feb 08, 2023 8:00 am
chapmaja wrote:
Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:49 am
I wonder what the definition of destroy will be. Does it mean a complete scrapping of the unit, or does it mean removal and destruction of all the power assemblies and electronics, while still leaving the shell of the unit available for preservation.

This could be interesting for the ex-D&TSL 46, which could be something a preservationist may want, as to my knowledge nothing from the D&TSL is preserved.

Retirement Schedule:

Phase 1 includes 12 locomotives and had to be done by 12/31/2022
So they are already behind schedule on retirements?

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