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For the first time in 3 years at the beginning of December, the CP Holiday Train will roll through Michigan on its way west to Chicago, with it's colorful consist. I'd like this thread to be used as updates for the train, such as consist type, anything interesting going on with it, etc. If it's ok with admin, when the time comes for it to pass through Michigan, I'd also like to use this same thread as a TLU thread just for this occasion.

It's great to see that CP hasn't forgotten the tradition, and I'm excited to go out on the hunt for it.

I've been hearing rumors that there's going to be KCS execs on the train this years. Can anyone confirm this?

The train will be running through on December 1st.

It's looking like the holiday train will be running with a TRIPLE header this year. According to some railfans and social media posts, the ECO's that normally lead the train (2244 & 2246) both went tech. The journey starts on Wednesday, and it sounds like it will be an AC44 and the 2 ECO's on the point, unless they get the issues figured out.

Looks like the dates have changed but I'm having a hard time reading the schedule with the recent updates. Doesn't look like they did a good job updating the webpage. I believe it says the Windsor stop is now on the 4th.

Attached are the sections that show timing of Windsor show. Edit.. looks like the show is on December 1st in Windsor

Anyone know of a good spot to see the train? I live in Howell and would prefer to not go to Allen Park. Anywhere close to US-23? Thanks.

The schedule change is due to further mechanical issues with the engine leading the US train this year from what I'm hearing, my friends in Canada are also telling me that the Canadian trainset has also had several schedule changes happen in the last 24/36 hours.

Edit: The schedule appears to have changed back to the 1st, I'm so confused...

Edit #2: I sent CP a direct message on twitter and somehow got a message back from them:

Hi David, we have been experiencing minor issues with our schedule on the website that we are currently getting fixed. The American train will be in Windsor at 6:00 PM, at the the CP railyard at Erie Street & Janette Street. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.

Ypsi wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:11 pm

Attached are the sections that show timing of Windsor show. Should be Tuesday the 6th through metro Detroit

Screen Shot 2022-11-28 at 12.09.58 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-11-28 at 12.10.03 PM.png

That's what you'd kind of think but they don't actually display the currently selected date, the 6th is the next day. Problem is once you get past Dec 2nd moving up, some of the dates are missing from the left or previous day which adds to the confusion.

Struggen wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:55 pm

Ypsi wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:11 pm

Attached are the sections that show timing of Windsor show. Should be Tuesday the 6th through metro Detroit

Screen Shot 2022-11-28 at 12.09.58 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-11-28 at 12.10.03 PM.png

That's what you'd kind of think but they don't actually display the currently selected date, the 6th is the next day. Problem is once you get past Dec 2nd moving up, some of the dates are missing from the left or previous day which adds to the confusion.

You are correct, looks like December 1st is the Windsor show... This system was confusing

onjfan wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:28 pm

Anyone know of a good spot to see the train? I live in Howell and would prefer to not go to Allen Park. Anywhere close to US-23? Thanks.

Literally anywhere the train goes through a city is an absolute mess, and outside of those areas the train generally makes trackspeed. You can find less busy areas, but the train will be moving much quicker. Milan is a mess with lots of traffic.. parking isn't too bad with the large lots and street parking, but it just gets busy. If you just want to be near U.S. 23 and don't mind the mess that follows this train, either the Milan diamond, or one of the other three crossings in town are a "fine" option.

Shifting into the TLU side of this thread, here's what we know:

The train is in Windsor between 6-6:30 PM
Departs Windsor around 6:30-6:45 PM
Crosses the Detroit River Tunnel give or take around 6:50-7:00 PM
Customs inspects the train somewhere in Detroit (Someone enlighten me as to where they do it, been wanting to know)
If going off of past runs is a good idea, the American crew is going on duty sometime between 7:45 and 8:00 PM

I have been told that this year's train will be running with close to no priority on the NS this year. So delays are possible.

My best guess is Allen Park around 9:30-10 PM; add 10 minutes to that if you're in Taylor and 20 minutes if you're in Romulus.

Ypsi wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:40 am

Literally anywhere the train goes through a city is an absolute mess, and outside of those areas the train generally makes trackspeed. You can find less busy areas, but the train will be moving much quicker. Milan is a mess with lots of traffic.. parking isn't too bad with the large lots and street parking, but it just gets busy. If you just want to be near U.S. 23 and don't mind the mess that follows this train, either the Milan diamond, or one of the other three crossings in town are a "fine" option.

Personally, I'd avoid Milan, parking is good, but other than that, the general public that goes there are normally idiots and don't know how close they're actually standing until the last moment; it's somehow worse than Allen Park from my experience.

If you honestly want a good location, go to Belleville. From what I understand, everyone is in Romulus when this train goes by, so Belleville is normally somewhat empty when it comes to the general public.

(Photo of Belleville below taken by my friend Paul Lencioni)

Belleville Reflections by Paul Lencioni, on Flickr

David Collins wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:40 pm

The schedule change is due to further mechanical issues with the engine leading the US train this year from what I'm hearing, my friends in Canada are also telling me that the Canadian trainset has also had several schedule changes happen in the last 24/36 hours.

Edit: The schedule appears to have changed back to the 1st, I'm so confused...

Edit #2: I sent CP a direct message on twitter and somehow got a message back from them:

Hi David, we have been experiencing minor issues with our schedule on the website that we are currently getting fixed. The American train will be in Windsor at 6:00 PM, at the the CP railyard at Erie Street & Janette Street. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.

The map is showing the 1st ... the list is practically useless for figuring out dates with "complete schedule" broken.

I have been planning for three years to catch the train again. My first attempt was four years ago from a railfan hot spot in Elkhart Indiana. The late night/early morning hour helped keep the crowd thin and I saw the train for the first time with my own eyes and camera. The next day I saw videos posted by others and planned a different location for 2019. My new location paid off (although the train was much later in the night than in 2018). A nice roll by at a decent speed and seeing it from the right side of the train. After that catch I drove ahead of the train taking a short cut hoping to catch it again. I found hundreds of people waiting to the west of the NS yard and found out later that CP did a crew change. So my plan for 2020 was to hope they did the crew change there again. No train in 2020. No train in 2021.

I was hoping to catch it this week but will probably have a conflict. I'll be watching the threads to see how it fares as it leaves Michigan and heads to the west but one cannot stay up all night and work the next day.

The good news is Elkhart has rail cams. Three have been installed since the 2019 train passed through so there should be decent views from the static cameras near the tracks (on the right side of the train) as well as from the PTZ camera on the station (mounted high above any potential rail fans). Chesterton's cameras will also catch it from the right side. (I consider it the right side as the video will show "Canadian" "Pacific" "Holiday" "Train" as it passes instead of "Train" "Holiday" "Pacific" "Canadian".)

Best wishes and good luck to my fellow hunters. Stay safe!

David Collins wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:48 pm

Ypsi wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 29, 2022 9:40 am

Literally anywhere the train goes through a city is an absolute mess, and outside of those areas the train generally makes trackspeed.

Personally, I'd avoid Milan, parking is good, but other than that, the general public that goes there are normally idiots and don't know how close they're actually standing until the last moment; it's somehow worse than Allen Park from my experience.

If you honestly want a good location, go to Belleville. From what I understand, everyone is in Romulus when this train goes by, so Belleville is normally somewhat empty when it comes to the general public.

As someone who has actually seen the train at both locations, I would say this is not really fully true. You also cannot get that view of the mill, and there will be people filling the dirt lot on the north side of the tracks. Belleville was just as packed as Milan when I was there a few years ago to catch the train given the size of the location. Since I was there early and knew what I was doing, I avoided having to shoot over people/ everyone was behind me. Parking is worse at Belleville due to the layout of the town (getting out of the milling lot is a nightmare). Like I said, literally anywhere the train goes is an absolute mess. In my experience though, the train has gone slower over the Milan diamond (likely due to that being where most people are) which makes it more enjoyable.

Belleville in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_41cHCU_Yk

Milan Diamond in 2016 (shows the crowd): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4E7kya4Ljg

Outside of Milan in 2017 (faster speed): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOG3kjZEyA8

For me the slow speed at Milan makes for a much more enjoyable experience, and if you only have or want to see this ONE time, I would recommend going somewhere it might be moving slower.

According to an NS employee I know, 02H (the symbol for the train) will have 3 slow orders tonight, Allen Park (not related to the crowds, from the general vicinity of thunderbowl to Pardee road in Taylor, 25 mph), Romulus (between CP Preston and the Diamond, 15 mph), and Milan (the whole city, 35 mph). All other trains will be following these slow orders, except the slow order in Romulus is bumped to 25 mph for all other trains. The guy also said that there is literally a bulletin that says "make a lot of noise".

21:21 - Holiday Train is through the tunnel into the US and stopped at US Customs.

The 2023 Holiday Train schedule was released. Windsor, Ontario is Friday November 24th.

GTW6401 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 13, 2023 9:21 pm

The 2023 Holiday Train schedule was released. Windsor, Ontario is Friday November 24th.

I may have to adjust my Thanksgiving weekend schedule. I missed 2022 due to work.