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Although the subject does not come up often anymore there was a time this board talked about "what ifs" rail car ferries especially for Ludington, Frankfort and Mackinaw City. One of the things that came up was how big would a ferry have to be for it to be more economical than going through Chicago?

There is an article in the October issue of Trains Magazine about an ocean car ferry operation that is huge.

CG Railway (owned by G&W) has invested in a pair of ferries that are 590' long and can hold up to 135 cars (57' average railcar length) EACH! The ferries are double decked (lower deck has 8 tracks and upper 10). Hi-cube rail cars will fit on the lower deck and there are no height restrictions for the upper deck.

A crew of 18-20 is needed.

They operate across the Gulf of Mexico between Mobile, AL and Coatzacoalcos, Veracruz. (956 miles vs. the all rail route of 2,200 miles).

I recommend reading the article for more details.

So my question is this, if a rail car ferry of this size had been introduced to any of the three MI ports we have discussed in the past would that have changed the outcome of rail car ferry service (Frankfort and Mackinaw City ended around 1983 and Ludington in the mid 1990's)?

I watched a YouTube video earlier today.
It was showing a FerroMex intermodal.
The security needed to protect it while it travels through Mexico is impressive.
That meaning armed guards with weapons at the ready.
There are other videos like that out there.

A car ferry would shorten the amount of time needed to protect it.
Not a reason that would have occurred in Michigan.

AARR wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:23 pm

So my question is this, if a rail car ferry of this size had been introduced to any of the three MI ports we have discussed in the past would that have changed the outcome of rail car ferry service (Frankfort and Mackinaw City ended around 1983 and Ludington in the mid 1990's)?

No I doubt it. If the railroads thought it would be feasible to build larger car ferries in order to make the service profitable I assume they would’ve done that.

No. The car ferries originated in the 1800's when it could take weeks to get a shipment through Chicago. Interchange improved and post WW2 as interstates siphoned away short haul/regional business the car ferries were an anachronism.

Aside from cars moving to destinations close to the ferry docks there is not much of a milage advantage.
Consider say Toledo and Minneapolis it's longer to go through Ludington.

The "savior" of the Lake Michigan carferries was supposed to be a tug/barge carferry operation that someone sold the idea to to the State of Michigan. Michigan even built/subsidized a shipbuilder in Ontonagon in the UP (at the end of the old Milwaukee Road line there) to build one or more of them. This was in the 1980's or so. I think the theory was that less crew was required to operate it while sailing than on the self-propelled carferries at the time (I think they took like 40 crew members). It was dismissed as impractical to safely operate on the Great Lakes and maybe one was built but never sailed. Maybe it was impractical for winter sailing in the ice.

The irony of it is now tug-barges are very common on the Great Lakes, replacing the older self-propelled freighters. I know I was skeptical back then about the tug/barge carferry but I guess someone had a vision.

There was, at one time, a modern, larger ferry on Lake Superior that ran between Superior, WI and Thunder Bay, ON. It was called "Incan Superior" and ran from 1974 until 1992. It had a top speed of 30 knots, making it by far the fastest Great Lakes rail ferry. It mostly hauled paper traffic in 40' and later 50' boxcars, 32 or 26 each, respectively. More info here: https://zenithcity.com/archive/historic ... -superior/

SD80MAC wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:48 pm

There was, at one time, a modern, larger ferry on Lake Superior that ran between Superior, WI and Thunder Bay, ON. It was called "Incan Superior" and ran from 1974 until 1992. It had a top speed of 30 knots, making it by far the fastest Great Lakes rail ferry. It mostly hauled paper traffic in 40' and later 50' boxcars, 32 or 26 each, respectively. More info here: https://zenithcity.com/archive/historic ... -superior/

That thing is incredible. I still can't figure out how they can get a ship of that size and displacement to 30 knots with only 4300hp.