Railfanning The State Capitol (Lansing)

[RailCanon]

Information for Raifanning the Areas in and around Lansing, Michigan's Capitol city:

Overview:
Lansing is home to Three Class I Railroads, CSX Transportation (CSXT), Canadian National Railway (CN) and Norfolk Southern Corporation (NS). Amtrak's Blue Water service from Chicago to Port Huron also makes two daily stops in East Lansing as well.

The Information presented here will be broken up by Railroad, beginning with CSXT.

Railfan Information:

CSX Transportation:
-Operations:
CSX runs through the Lansing area on the Plymouth Subdivision. They are the only railroad that auctually runs through the downtown area, with their main line passing through just east of the downtown area.
Currently, Four CSX Manifest freight trains polish the rails every day. These trains are:
Q326 - Chicago, IL to Detroit, MI via Grand Rapids
Q327 - Detroit, MI to Chicago, IL via Grand Rapids
Q334 - Grand Rapids, MI to Toledo, OH
Q335 - Toledo, OH to Grand Rapids, MI
As of this writting, Q326 and Q327 have the daily job of setting out and picking up cars from Ensel Yard, on Lansing's Northwest side. Q326 usually arrives in Lansing in the early to middle afternoon between 1:00 to 3:00, and will normally spend 1-2 hours switching Lansing before continuing east. Q327 normally arrives in the late afternoon or early evening, between 3:00 and 6:00, and will also usually spend several hours switching at Ensel yard before continuing west.
Q334 is a night train, departing Grand Rapids at 10:00 PM on most evenings, and passing through Lansing between 11:00 PM and Midnight.
Q335 will usually pass through from Toledo at in the early to middle afternoon, usually between 1:00 and 3:00.
While most CP Runthrough trains have moved down to Indiana, and Norfolk Southern's Chicago Line, one CP Train remains on CSX due to the Contract agreement between CP and CSX.
X500 - Minneapolis, MN to Montreal, QC, Canada, via Chicago, Grand Rapids and Detroit.
X500's schedule tends to vary, but normally it will pass through Lansing between 6:00 AM and 9:00 AM most mornings.
CSX operates two local freight trains out of Ensel Yard as well. These trains are D708, which works west of Lansing to Lake Odessa and Alto, and D709, which works east of Lansing to Fowlerville, Howell, and on occasion, South Lyon. D708 normally departs Ensel in the morning, between 10:00 and noon, and returns between 5:00 and 6:00 most evenings. D709 can leave the yard at any time, and generally leaves between 1:00PM and 4:00PM, and returns around 9:00PM-10:00PM. Power for these trains are normally GP38-2s, but they will sometimes feature GP40-2s, or an occasional GP30 Road Slug set. On some very rare occasions, locomotives such as MP15ACs, or GE B36-7s can be found working these trains. Both D708 and D709 run only Monday-Friday.
CSX will also run Grand, Stone, Coal and Coke extra trains on occasion. For more information on these trains, click Here [Although this is a Grand Rapids schedule, many of the trains listed run through Lansing].
The Plymouth Subdivision is Single track and CTC signaled east of Lansing. The line is double track CTC Between CP North Lansing and Logan Street (The west end of Ensel yard), and is single track ABS west of Ensel yard. The ABS Segment of the line runs from Logan Street to the East End of Lake Odessa siding, a distance of about 30 miles. The line is divided up into five DTC blocks, the Cash Ledge Field Jordan and Lako blocks, and trains departing these blocks, or entering them must call the dispatcher to either obtain the authority to head west, or release the authority if going east. The Plymouth Subdivision is dispatched by CSX's RN Dispatcher desk in Calumet City, Illinois (Chicago).
-Scanner Frequencies:
Road: 160.230
RN Dispatcher: 160.320 (West of Lansing)
RN Dispatcher: 161.370 (East of Lansing)
_____________________________________________________________

Canadian National Railway
-Operations:
Canadian National is the busiest railroad in the Lansing area. They operate through the south side of Lansing on the busy Flint Subdivision.
Currently there are about 24 to 26 trains per day that operate over the Flint subdivision, including Amtrak Blue Water service trains 364 and 365. Most trains seen will be General freight or automotive traffic, but there are also two dedicated intermodal trains that run on the line daily. From what I have observed all of these trains do have schedules, but they can show up at anytime most of the time. The busiest times of day are in the mornings, between 7:00 AM and 10:00 AM, and in the late afternoon/early evening hours of the day, most of the time. The Flint Subdivision is Double Track CTC through Lansing, although the second track between Cedar and Mill has been turned into what is known as the "Lansing Service Track" (LST). All trains wishing or needing to use the Service track must get permission from the dispatcher before doing so. Major Control Points, or Interlockings on the Flint Sub in and around Lansing, from east to west are:
-Okemos, Milepost 227 - Begin Double Track
-Trowbridge, Milepost 223 - Junction with CSXT.
-Cedar, Milepost 221 - Crossover, Begin LST, Junction with NS.
-Hope, Milepost 217 - Crossover, East End of Snow Rd. Yard.
-Mill, Milepost 214 - Crossover, End LST, West end of Snow Rd. Yard.
-Potterville, Milepost 208 - Begin single track.
The Flint Sub is controlled by CN's TD3 Dispatcher in Troy, Michigan.
-Scanner Frequencies:
Road: 160.590
TD3 Dispatcher: 161.220
_____________________________________________________________

Norfolk Southern Corp.
-Operations
Norfolk Southern operates into Lansing on their Ex-Conrail Lansing Secondary line, which begins in Jackson, on the Michigan Line. NS is the least busy railroad in Lansing, with only two to three trains per day. Like CSX and CN, NS also has a small yard for the Lansing area. This yard, named Saginaw Yard, is located near GM's Former Craft Centre and Fisher body, which is currently being demolished. On weekdays, NS will run a train, symboled B30, south from Lansing to Jackson, which will switch smaller industries along the route. The train starts out at Saginaw yard at 8:00 AM on weekdays and will usually go as far south as Mason. Though sometimes they will go all the way to Jackson. If they stop at Mason, they are relieved at 6:00 PM with a new symbol, B28 which will usually take them the rest of the way to Jackson. On Sundays B28 will also run from Lansing to Jackson in place of B30. Another train in the Lansing area for NS is B48, which switches Saginaw yard and, if needed, will relieve B28. B48 normally runs at night. The power for these trains is usually older EMD four axle locomotives, such as GP40-2s and GP38-2s, but GP50s, GP59s, and ocassionally B40-8s aren't uncommon either. Also the Lansing secondary is not limited to four axle power, and Everything from SD40-2s to C40-9Ws and even SD80MACs have been seen on the line.
NS serves the following customers in Lansing:
Louis Padnos (Scrap)
QDC Plastics
Alro Steel
Reid Machinery (Rarely ships/receives anything)
CSX Transportation (Interchange at Ensel yard)
Ambassador Steel
GM Stamping plant (Occasional load of racks)
South of Lansing, NS serves
Holt:
Capital Drywall
RSDC (Coiled steel)
Mason:
Mason Elevator
Americhem
Michigan Packaging
Capital Excavating (MSU coal)
National Gypsum (Drywall)
SSS Lumber
Leslie:
Mason elevator
Between CP MA (Michigan Avenue in downtown) and Turner street (E.E. of Ensel yard) NS Operates over CSX on trackage rights. When they reach Ensel yard they return to home rails for the last part of the trip to Saginaw yard. The line between Turner street and Saginaw yard is known as the Belt Line. Just a mile or two south of CP MA, the Lansing secondary crosses the CN Flint subdivision at Cedar. Any time NS needs to cross the Flint sub, they must contact CN TD3, as he controls the entire interlocking.
To operate on the Lansing secondary requires a Form D from the dispatcher. The Lansing Secondary is dispatched by Norfolk Southern's Dearborn Dispatcher in Dearborn, MI.
-Scanner Frequencies:
Road/Dispatcher: 160.800
_____________________________________________________________

Amtrak
Amtrak runs two trains a day through the Lansing area.
These trains are
364, Blue Water, Eastbound
365, Blue Water, Westbound
These trains operate over CN and make daily stops at the Amtrak station in East Lansing, near Trowbridge.
Amtrak's current schedule has 364 arriving in East Lansing at 8:11 PM, while 365 arrives at 7:58 AM. These trains can be late sometimes though, most often but not limited to Poor dispatching on CN's part.
The consist of the Blue Water is usually a four car train bracketed by a P42DC at each end. Occasionally, the train will run with five cars.
For more information on Amtrak's Blue Water service, and Michigan services in general, visit http://www.mitrain.com.
_____________________________________________________________

Best watch spots
I'm pretty sure that everyone knows about Trowbridge, and where it is located. And while it is the best location to watch trains in the area, there are a few other good spots as well.
I would have to say the second best spot would be the old GTW Station on Washington street south of downtown. Here you will see any CN trains that should happen to pass by, and the CSX line is just a short drive away if you know that a train is approaching.
Another excellent spot is Clara's Lansing station, which is located in the former PM/MC depot on Michigan Avenue, along the CSX line. This is a good place to either sit and wait, or enjoy a meal in the Station or Dining car while you wait. The food and service is excellent, and the trains are icing on the cake.
Ensel yard is another good spot to watch trains. The west end of the yard is better because there is a parking lot right next to the tracks, and signals are available here.
Finally the CN yard on the south side of town is another good place to wait, as there are signals and good spots to park at both ends.
There are also numerous other locations to watch and photograph trains in the area, if you explore a bit.

[RailCanon]

Thanks to Zack for reminding me of this write-up, I finally got it finished. I might add some photos to supplement it, but not right away.
I hope this is helpful to people.
I'd also like to thank Bill Wilson for clearing a few things up about NS operations in the area. NS is the railroad that I pay the least attention to in the area, and their operations get confusing to me at times. Thank you again, Bill.

[J T]

I'd like to add another spot that is great for railfanning. There is an old bridge that links Potter Park Zoo with the adjacent neighborhood to the north that is a great spot over the CN line. It's quite easy to climb down the embankments on each side if you'd like to a get a good picture in either direction. Looking east, there is an old coal tower about 1/2-1 mile down that would provide a nice background for a westbound train.

I'm not condoning any trespassing on the CN ROW, but there ARE some good photo ops there.

[CAT345C]

D708 is out of Wyoming Yard in Grand Rapids and heads East now to keep traffic out of Ensel yard, I know Gregg, knows that, just putting it out there for the non-local railfans.

[BNSF 1088]

CN runs 30-35 trains a day from what i have been told CN likes to fleet trains at times i have seen 3-4 east bounds then 3-4 west bounds.

What i have noticed over the last few weeks is there is a morning rush then a mid day and a night rush in between times can be dead.

The morning rush seems to start around 0600 to about 1000 then the mid day is about 1500 to 1700 then 2000 to 0000.

CSXT runs most of the trains thru East Lansing in the mid afternoon.

Q326 and Q327 show up thru this area between 1430-1830

[GrandTrunkFan]

D708 is out of Wyoming Yard in Grand Rapids and heads East now to keep traffic out of Ensel yard, I know Gregg, knows that, just putting it out there for the non-local railfans.

Lately, D708 has been comming from Lansing and arriving in Lake O at about 11:30-12:00 at night, and has to wait for 334 to come through before going back to Lansing.

[mikekmac]

Between CP MA (Michigan Avenue in downtown) and Turner street (E.E. of Ensel yard) NS Operates over CSX on trackage rights. When they reach Ensel yard they return to home rails for the last part of the trip to Saginaw yard.

Is this still true? Where exactly is the Saginaw Yard--in the Lansing area, or in the Saginaw area? The official Michigan Railroad Map:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MDOT_ ... 0897_7.pdf

doesn't show any NS right of way north of Lansing, and I understood that they no longer operate north of Lansing over anyone's right of way.

The NS yard north of Cavanaugh Road in Lansing (does it have a name?) looks to be completely unused.

-Mike

[Scooterb]

In Lansing, Saginaw yard is west of westside park, just north of where West Oakland and West Saginaw come together AKA business 96, 43.

[mikekmac]

Ah, that puts it just into the really low-res aerial imagery on Wikimapia.

Doesn't that put the yard next to the former GM Craft Centre? If so, NS has to be pretty much out of business at that location, too, yes?

[J T]

Ah, that puts it just into the really low-res aerial imagery on Wikimapia.

Doesn't that put the yard next to the former GM Craft Centre? If so, NS has to be pretty much out of business at that location, too, yes?

Pretty much...yes. Both plants that the rail line serviced through there are either gone or being razed as we speak. On the north side of Saginaw Ave, the plant looks to be close to being demolished within a week or so. The south side is completely gone, making the tracks running into the plant visible (pretty cool to see where they went, although it sucks that they'll never be used again). I'm glad I was able to catch some switching work at the plant on the north side of Saginaw Ave a few years back, as those tracks running west of the yard and parallel to Saginaw Ave always intrigued me. I've been by them a million times in my life, but only saw ONE train on them ever. I'm sure back in the 60's and 70's they were used quite heavily, though.

Gregg and I drove by there on Saturday and there were a string of cars parked there obviously for storage purposes. Gregg can probably elaborate on that a little more. Being the driver, I was a little less observant than him.

Mike, try Mapquest for the satellite image. It looks like the Google map cuts off as well just shy of Saginaw Yard, but it's quite visible on Mapquest. It also looks like their map is more recent, showing the plant south of Saginaw Ave. almost completely demolished on the east side of the tracks.

[RailCanon]

To clarify JTs comment, NS is currently storing some older auto part boxes and N&W hoppers at Saginaw yard. I think South Yard (Cavanaugh yard) is also being used for storage.

[iNFEKT]

To clarify JTs comment, NS is currently storing some older auto part boxes and N&W hoppers at Saginaw yard. I think South Yard (Cavanaugh yard) is also being used for storage.

This is correct, the Saginaw yard has some really smelly old hoppers and a few boxcars that have been there almost a month and the yard north of Cavanaugh has been storing about 20 boxcars for about 2 months.

[nsted1582]

I'm sure back in the 60's and 70's they were used quite heavily, though.

- JT

Sorry to dig up this old topic but this intrested me

JT is correct in the 90s they had trains from Saginaw Yard to Toledo and dailys to and from Jackson and lots more yard jobs and trains that serviced Lansing

[mikekmac]

Information for Raifanning the Areas in and around Lansing, Michigan's Capitol city:


-CSX Scanner Frequencies:
Road: 160.230
RN Dispatcher: 160.320 (West of Lansing)
RN Dispatcher: 161.370 (East of Lansing)
_______________________________


-CN Scanner Frequencies:
Road: 160.590
TD3 Dispatcher: 161.220
_______________________________

Do any of the local yards use a dedicated yard frequency? I know such things exist in both CN and CSX radio freq tables, but none of the local yards seems busy enough to need one.

[UncleRaul]

I'd like to add another spot that is great for railfanning. There is an old bridge that links Potter Park Zoo with the adjacent neighborhood to the north that is a great spot over the CN line. It's quite easy to climb down the embankments on each side if you'd like to a get a good picture in either direction. Looking east, there is an old coal tower about 1/2-1 mile down that would provide a nice background for a westbound train.

This was an awesome place to watch trains, and sometimes they even stop at this point, probably waiting to get throught the yard west of town. But this bridge is now fenced off, deemed unsafe (easy to see why), and although you don't get the bird's-eye view, there are other cool watching spots nearby.

[GP30M4216]

Looking at the date of the original post, I don't know how recently it was updated, but I'm curious to know if this is generally still an accurate look at the railroads and trains operating through Lansing now at the beginning of 2009? Also, is Cedar diamond accessible at all, or restricted on private property? I took the International through there the last year it ran but I wasn't paying attention as well as I should have. Thanks.

[SD80MAC]

Looking at the date of the original post, I don't know how recently it was updated, but I'm curious to know if this is generally still an accurate look at the railroads and trains operating through Lansing now at the beginning of 2009? Also, is Cedar diamond accessible at all, or restricted on private property? I took the International through there the last year it ran but I wasn't paying attention as well as I should have. Thanks.

Define "accessible"........

[RailCanon]

I read through my summary and I did notice a few things that are now inaccurate. I'll go and fix them when I get the time. Most of the info on train times and operations are still pretty accurate, though.
And Cedar is actually pretty accessible....
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&saddr=4 ... 6&t=h&z=16

[mikekmac]

Cedar Diamond is accessible in the northeast quadrant, where there's a large paved area surrounding some old industrial/warehouse buildings (one vacant, one in use). Half the fence between the paved area and the rails is torn down, and the double gate at the other end has been open so long that there are small trees preventing it from being closed.

The northwest quadrant is the City of Lansing street department.

The southwest quadrant has another big old industrial building which appears to be only partly in use. A branch of the NS line wraps around the north side of the building (I think it must have been a wye with the CN line at one time) and then goes southwest through the city to the old forge west of MLK.

The southeast quadrant is older blue-collar (at best) residential, and there's a lot of foliage right along the tracks.

So it's a pretty good place for watching at least in the NE quadrant, but not such a good place for photos, since you never get a really good sun angle from the north side of the tracks. Doesn't mean I don't have a few hundred photos from there, of course.

[CERY]

Just be careful, that is a rough part of town once the sun starts to go down or when alone. I know I have guys come out of nowhere on me before. If any one wants to go down there but wants some one to tag along let me know. Remember strength in numbers.