MSU Coal

[J T]

Well played.

[MagnumForce]

Not to mention that Sparty painted SW8 or whatever it is they have is one UGLY bird...

Oh no you didn't! It's a GREAT looking unit!

Pulling a JT on JT.

I grew up east of Ann Arbor, where Wolverines eat Spartans for breakfast.

If you are 18 then there has been very little breakfast had during your life.

[MQT1223]

Oh no you didn't! It's a GREAT looking unit!

Pulling a JT on JT.

I grew up east of Ann Arbor, where Wolverines eat Spartans for breakfast.

If you are 18 then there has been very little breakfast had during your life.

Lately we have been starved, but we have some of the winningest sports programs in NCAA history, so that should serve us plenty.

[J T]

Lately we have been starved, but we have some of the winningest sports programs in NCAA history, so that should serve us plenty.

We? Us? Did you go to UM?

[MQT1223]

Lately we have been starved, but we have some of the winningest sports programs in NCAA history, so that should serve us plenty.

We? Us? Did you go to UM?

When I mean is us U of M fans.

[ConrailDetr​oit]

What AARR said is absolutely true. Negligent pollution is not okay. I'm a fisherman, so I steam when I see all the trash and leaked oil in creeks and lakes.

I just don't believe the earth is warming, and the "response" of regulating ourselves back to the Stone Age.

For what we consume, and what we pollute, we are the cleanest industrial nation on the plant.

China is the worst. With no signs of cutting emissions.

If this is true, it is still not good enough. I would have thought Germany or Japan would have been #1 but we don't have any data sources listed here. The US may be relatively the cleanest industrial nation in the world but with current trends and issues we are far from being clean enough for a sustainable future.

[Standard Railfan]

If you would like some data sources, you may look at the EPA website as a start. http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/ghgemi ... .html#four

There is a mountain of emission data available on the web. Some of the reports may even be accurate.

[chapmaja]

Global Warming and Climate change is a very complex topic.

I personally do believe that global warming is occurring and that human actions have a very substantial impact in the cause of global warming.

Some of the arguments in the discussion have included the idea that "No warming has been seen since 1998. That is technically true based on some data. One needs to look at 1998 to see why that is. The El Nino of 1997-1998 was the strongest on record. This caused a substantial increase in temperatures in many areas of the world. Since that El Nino stopped, there was a decrease in temperatures, because the hot temperatures were not supported by the El Nino as they were in 1998. So yes, the temperatures are not averaging as hot as they were in 1998. If we were to have another El Nino at the level of 1998, we should see temperatures at or above that level.

The issue is that so many different things mix to control global temperatures. Yes, the gasses in the atmosphere do play a major part in the heating and cooling of the planet. Even the anti-climate change people will agree on this. What they differ on is how impactful these gasses. Other things that impact the planet's temperature include solar activity and nature itself. We still do not have a decent grasp on how these items all mix, so we can't be sure what the true impact of greenhouse gas emissions is.

Some things to consider also. Human's have only been in the industrial age for a couple hundred years. In the idea of climate change this is not a long time. Since we don't have a grasp on how everything works together, we don't have a complete idea on the true impacts of some human actions on the global climate.

Yes, there are certain things that we do know have a major impact on the environment. Chemical pollution has been proven to cause damage to natural life in the environment. That has been proven. We should attempt to eliminate as much chemical pollution as possible. I think the vast majority of people would agree this is a good idea. Dumping raw chemicals into a river to the point it burns, likely is not a good idea (Mom my was in Cleveland when the river burned).

With all of this said, we do need to be concerned about environmental stewardship, but we also need to be aware of economics as well. Even though I think global warming is a true event, and I think human actions are a cause, I don't think we are going a safe route by pushing "green solutions" as much as we are. I think the government's current stance against coal is very dangerous for the future of the country. I think instead of pushing to eliminate the use of coal, the government should be pushing for science to discover a method of making coal use cleaner and safer. They should also be pushing for ways to make what seems like a non-renewable resource into a renewable resource. There are methods, using natural materials such as bacteria and algae to capture carbon dioxide emissions to create oxygen as well as oils that in mass quantities could be refined into useable fuel and food sources.

One final thought. Some of the actions of human kind are altering the planet and we can not argue about it. The planet, like all living things, has lungs. The lungs of the planet are the tropical and subtropical rain forests which filter much of the carbon dioxide produced by living and nonliving chemical reactions. We have seen a substantial portion of the worlds rainforest destroyed. The effect on the planet would be similar to a human having a lung removed. You simply will not be at your best. As the industrial age has continued, we have surgically removed one of the planets lungs, but expect no changes.

One thing I don't believe is that we will (in my lifetime) ever be able to get out energy from totally renewable resources. Why? We simple have to many energy needs and we don't yet have the ability to produce the level of energy needed to me out needs. We will always depend on "non-renewable" sources for energy. The key is making the best use of these sources.

One thing that some don't understand is that power plant closures and upgrades not just happening for anti-coal reasons. Economics plays a part as well. We have increased the technology substantially in the past 50 years. What was energy efficient 50 years ago, is not as energy efficient today. Power companies need to seriously look at the economics of upgrading facilities or taking them off line. In many cases, it is easier to take a plant off line, and instead make used or more efficient power sources to fill the void. In Michigan there is grave concern about the upcoming plant closures however as these are not "economic closures, but environmental closures."

[Doktor No]

A T859 from Bear Run to MSU is on the table. Hasn't run from Bear Run yet though. Bear Run is in southwest Indiana by the way.