NS Peavine talk

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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby heypal6878 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:55 am

Glad to see you joined. The new CCET railroad has rebanded the name to Cincinnati Eastern Railroad in the last two months. They now have a few new investors and are getting an upgrade in two different engines that have been sent to Cincinnati.

After NS left the rail they ran most of the rail business away not servicing a few accounts. When the CCET took over they picked up a few accounts out east but most of there business in tanker storage. They then applied for more rail line and now are out about 68 miles from Clare. After that point the rails are in pretty bad shape not sure if they can even be repaired from washouts. There is some video footage on you tube on the Peavine.

The rail is active on Monday, Tuesday Wednesdays and Thursday and every now and then maybe a Friday.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Geno » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:52 am

Thanks for the info, I greatly appreciate it. I have heard the switch and some rail have been removed at Vera. Sad news, I really dig that big old bridge over the Scioto. I hate it'll never see a train roll over it again. It would make a great focal point for a trail if that ever happens. I hadn't known there was so much talk about the Peavine until finding this site. I'm enjoying it so far. My Grandfather came from the Kentucky coal mines to Ohio to work for the former Pennsy that ran from Columbus to Union City. He didn't care much for it and went back to the mines.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:05 pm

As of about a month and a half ago the new CER has rebranded itself. New investors that have a vision and new staff. The new investors are working with the country to try to lure more business to use the rail. There is now an industrial park in Clermont County. On new company has committed there but not going to use rail. From what I understand their are some talks going on now as a larger company is looking at the property and they most likely will need rail transportation. The State also wants to find a suitable company to come in to one of the counties up there and that as well might drive rail traffic.

Currently the rail is mostly used for storage so we shall see. I understand the new investors are movers and shakers so it will be interesting. For someone to come in a buy out investors in the old CCET they must think they can make a go of it here.

I have followed the old NS Peavine most of my life. I remember as a kid the old Penn Railroad as it ran next to the tracks at Clare to Terrace Park Milford and beyond. Sometimes NS would have 15 trains go over the Little Miami at Clare per day long trains going east and west. The yard was very active.

Now they run up to 68 miles from Clare a far fetch from the 45 miles the CCET started from. So yes the rail has had more business since NS left. The question is will the storage business stay strong? Can the new investors get or bring more business to the line? Of late the rails are shinny on the west side but not so much going out east. The siding does have tankers on the tracks but not as many as say six months ago. Storage I was told is a money maker. If that slows the CER is in some trouble.

The I&O is strong in Cincinnati. The Norwood Yard is always full as they run at least 4 trains everyday north east. I remember when B&O ran the line it was really busy in the 60s and 70s. NS at Sharon Yard is busy all of the time and often I run up that way to watch trains.

I love the Peavine as it runs through many small towns yet many years ago most of these small towns had business that used rail. Today they are long gone dried up, moved out of just closed. So we will see what happens with the new Peavine
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:34 pm

As we head into December the Peavine is rather busy. Been walking the dog down by Clare Yard and the tracks have been rather active with grain cars and tankers plus plenty of box cars of late. So it appears that the paper plant in the old Ford plant has been picking up the past few months. I know the new owners are trying to get new business on the line so it appears that they are making some head way which is great for the small line that was nearly dead five years ago.

I talked to one of the workers on Tuesday he said that they are doing some rail work out east opening up a new wye cleaning brush on tracks that haven't been used in years. So the new company is spending money and looking to get more business out east.

Meanwhile looking at the old Clare Yard there are many tankers sitting down here today so they most likely will be heading east later this week.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:09 pm

Merry Christmas to all the Peavine fans out there and railfans in Ohio!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby heypal6878 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:09 pm

Happy New Year Northstar and to all railfans out there. Northstar thanks for the report! I have been pretty busy in December at work but have had the chance to get out the last week to see a little of the Peavive activity. They continue to be rather busy this winter. I have noticed several cars on siding east of Clare Yard the last few weeks waiting to go east. Looks like they are getting some business from the recycling plant way out east. The paper plant out in Batavia is busy and the Ag is also rather busy. Rail storage is the bread and butter for the Peavine and the new rail company and that continues to do well. Looks like another successful year coming up on the Peavine despite what Midland and his pal have to say.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby Toppysager » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:50 pm

I'm new to this thread, and have read through much of the discussion, however there are several questions I still have over some unclear/debated information.

Exactly how far East does the Cincinnati Eastern run? I have heard '68 miles' which would put it just west of Rareden. Is this as far as the line is operated or is the line still serviced into Rareden? I have also heard 'Plum Run' mentioned several times, but have had difficulty triangulating exactly where that is, as I am quite unfamiliar with this territory


Second, when was the last time NS regularly serviced the Peavine with through freights? I heard L51 mentioned as the final train ~2003, but I know that at one point 217 and 218 were indeed routed via the Peavine along with several other road freights. I assume this changed with the Heartland Corridor Project, but I was just wondering if anyone had a precise date, and a list of trains that were scheduled in the final years

Finally, what is the condition of the signalling system? As I understand it most of the signalling system has been out of service since the mid-2000s, but I was curious if ANY N&Ws were still active throughout the system at control points (if any), sidings (if any), or anywhere on the remaining 68-mile segment.


Thanks in advance
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:10 pm

How Far East - Line is in service and leased by CCET to Jaybird Road, which is the road that leads to General Electric Aviation's Peebles OH facility. East of there to Vera is out of service with switch at Vera removed. Out of service portion also has 1 or 2 washout. Last customer is Hanson Aggregates at Plum Run (between "downtown" Peebles and Jaybird Road.) Line is served 4-5 days a week between Clare and Afton, 2-3 days a week as far east at Winchester OH. Nothing east of Winchester for a while now. Service strictly at customers need.

Last NS through freight was 2004. NS continued to run a local from Sharonville as far as Peebles 2004 to early 2014.

Signals are dead - most everything has been stolen. Just masts and heads and some of those incomplete. Those signals will never be active again. No active wayside signals anywhere on CCET - only a handful left of the IORY side in Cincinnati - several of those have been retired and removed.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby heypal6878 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:19 pm

Looks like Peavine will be busy Monday or Tuesday. Plenty of cars sitting on the tracts east of Clare Yard
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:16 pm

Peavine starting to pick up with spring coming. Plenty of cars down at Clare this week as the CET has been going back and forth dropping off and picking up. Looks like some rail work going on as well.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:50 pm

Was down at the rails today talked the the NW crew working on the rails at Clare. Several empty tank cars going to storage down on the side rails. Crew said the new owners doing rather well getting not only tankers but other cars as well to put in storage. Storage is money. Said they picked up some new business but chances are not going to get any more rails out east as the tracks are in pretty bad shape. There was an inspection crew out there two weeks ago looking at the rails. Many washed out areas too dangerous for storage good chance for a derail. I said it is what it is glad that the line is still active hope they get more business if some new companies build out that way on the line. I said you never know, if one large company moves out that way and wants rail transport the State may come up with some money along with NS and open the entire line. It has happened on several lines that were out of commission so it could happen.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby redcrumbox » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:37 pm

NS needs to sell the line. The new owner could re-open the 'entire line' and pull empty tanks from either end.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby northstar16 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:45 pm

Indeed! This should happen as NS will never use this line again. NS well all railroads for that matter hate to sell their rails. The Peavine is done for as a Class 1 rail. NS doesn't want to run anything they have on it. That is why the short rail now leases the line and does pretty well with storage. The new owners just got into storing hoppers in recent months again more money to operate and fix the line that has some short falls with old rails that need to be replaced and signals that don't operate properly. They are getting to it which is a good thing.

A major derail could end the CER so they need to keep this line fixed. Opening both ends would be a very expensive investment more than what the CER has to spend. Washouts on the east line in several spots would be expensive to fix, not saying it can't be fixed but man in some spots that I have seen the rails have moved several feet. Then the bridge over Vera needs major repair in the river. Who knows what the footing is like under there and how much weight it could even hold. Millions of dollars in repairs would be needed.

The other issue is every time NS opens up more rail it cost the CER more money on the lease. Could that continue to get several more cars of storage every week? This week there were plenty of empty tankers down at Clare with several hoppers going to storage. There really isn't much business out east that uses rail so they need to continue to get storage income to stay alive. The Ag gives them a good amount of money in the fall and yes they do haul some scrap and rock but that isn't a large money maker unless they get more business from both of these companies.

If a major development goes in out east that uses rail then maybe the CER will generate enough money to get the State to kick in to fix the bridge at Vera but that is a long shot a very long shot.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:10 pm

Where do you get your information? " the line that has some short falls with old rails that need to be replaced and signals that don't operate properly" What are you talking about? The old wayside N&W signals? If so, they will never work again - most are just mast and head several just the target left on head with everything else long since stolen. There is no need or desire to ever restore those. All crossing protection functions properly and inspected and maintained to Federal standards. False activations are almost always because some A hole shunted the tracks or cut a wire, or some meth head local busted a box open and stole crap. Old rails that need replaces? Again, huh? Rail is all heavy CWR with light to moderate wear - lots of good years left in them. Tie condition is good enough that line is all FRA Class 2, 25 MPH. Sure, they would love more ties, what shortline wouldn't. But there is simply no reason to upgrade tracks to a higher standard and faster operating speed - what little crew cost savings you would realize simply do no justify the expense and additional upkeep and inspection. What slow orders out there are related to drainage and slippage - all items that are being addressed over time.

A major derail would not end anything. There is the crazy new thing called insurance. As for east end, east of Jaybird Road, Norfolk Southern filed for and was granted a Discontinuance of Service order by the STB. This is abandonment-light. NS (nor CCET) no longer has common carrier obligation for line, and line MAY NOT be used for revenue purposes INCLUDING paid storage. Discontinuance allows NS to retain the right or way - generally speaking, NS seems to go this route more often, not because they may reactivate it someday, but because it's cheaper to keep and pay what little property tax is imposed than it is to go through the formal abandonment process and deal with disposition of the right of way. CCET has no want, need, desire, or interest in taking more of that line and having to go thru the STB process of re-establishing line as a common carrier just to use it for storage. No rail dependent company is going to locate along a line that is in Discontinuance, especially when there are multiple site elsewhere that have active rail. And even if a major plant built is Peebles, that traffic would just go west to Cincinnati - there's just nothing out there moving by rail that is so time critical is has to go direct to Portsmouth vs going to Cincinnati. Since the line is still there, there is always a chance it could be reactivated. But you have a better chance of hitting the Power Ball.

Lastly, there is no such company as CER. Cincinnati Eastern Railroad is the marketing name. Official corporate name is CCET LLC. Reporting mark is also CCET. For more real information about CCET, see their website at http://www.cinrail.com or http://www.homesteadrailgroup.com
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby jallenp7 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:23 am

Come on Scrapy, Get some haulage freight and make the rail fans happy with some long, Freight Drags and Doubling Hills.

Look how well the IORY did with Haulage Freight. lol
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:44 am

jallenp7 wrote:Come on Scrapy, Get some haulage freight and make the rail fans happy with some long, Freight Drags and Doubling Hills.

Look how well the IORY did with Haulage Freight. lol


That's a hell of an idea. Can I please charter a helicopter again to do a crew change? And can I get DM to help, so he can triple up 3 419s to run at once :lol:
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby jallenp7 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 am

The good old days, what the hell were we thinking!!!
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby heypal6878 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:03 pm

I have been out of the loop here but I do know that Northstar walks his dog down by Clare Yard a few times a week and does talk to the NS crew and CCET crew down there as well. So the info he receives comes from the crew.

The CCET can request more rail expansion from NS if they want to past Plum Road. The tracts about a mile past Plum Road are okay for storage but after that not very sure. Plenty of wash outs from a mile out to Vera Bridge.

It is a fact that the line will never open again unless a major company builds near the line and uses rail transport. It is a long shot that it will ever happen but it could. Property out that way is inexpensive a big company could be enticed to build there. The CCET is doing some rail work along the rails in a few spots from what I hear.

Really the CCET has put life back in the Peavine that was written off by NS. Currently they are storing hoppers and tankers so this is some solid revenue for this small railroad. I'm glad that the I&O has been so successful. Oakley station is busy everyday and it appears they are getting more accounts out north again. This is good news the I&O is a good rail service. I like to railfan over in Oakley and up in Loveland as the I&O is on the move daily.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby scraphauler » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:53 am

Jaybird Road east of Plum Run is the eastern most limit of CCET. Not such thing as Plum Road. Only thing that could even remotely be of interested would be to take another couple miles and pickup the siding at Rarden for additional storage. But the storage market would have to change drastically to justify the expenses associated with reopening - remember, the line east of Jaybird in no longer a common carrier line and can not be used for revenue purposes. Would take quite a while to earn enough storage revenue to recoup the lawyer expenses from dealing with the STB to re-establish common carrier obligations.

Storage today is a whole different animal than even just a few years ago. Gone are the days that cars are getting parked and hidden wherever the can just to get them out of the way because they have no use. What long term, cars not needed, hide them somewhere storage that is out there is pretty well already parked. What little left is looking for prices much lower than CCET would take. Storage now has to be accessible - it is switch several times a week if not daily. There are 3 types of storage on CCET - seasonal/surge fleet, leasing company inventory, and staging. Season/Surge fleet is switched the least - this is predominately petro-chem - it picks up in the spring as LPG cars go into seasonal storage. Leasing Company Inventory is always changing - CCET serves as the Midwest "used car lot" where the leasing company sends cars coming off lease and customer can come "kick the tires". Lastly is staging. This require constant scheduled switching. Class 1 railroad customers use shortlines like CCET to stage both loaded and empty cars, then order them back to the Class 1 on a JIT basis. The recent Class 1 push for PSR has made it very expensive for industries to hold large amounts of cars as they have previously done - constructive placement demurrage, extra switch fees to pull car out of constructive placement, and the NS favorite of a CCC Surchage (Customer Caused Congestion) have made it cheaper for the customer to pay to send car directly to shortline, then pay second freight bill to move car from shortline to plant.

So the bulk of the storage cars need to stay close at hand. Running 3 hours one way to switch storage at Rarden simply is not feasible.
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Re: NS Peavine talk

Unread postby AARR » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:39 pm

Thank you for the education, scraphauler.
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