NS. So what is next.

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LakeATCS
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NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Well. It has been an interesting few years signal wise.

Create Englewood, Gateway, 2 Elkhart projects, Crossover additions over and above gateway, upgrades on the Chicago District and Kankakee, PTC. About four years of constant projects.

So now we have come to the end of most of it. So the question is? What is left, and what do we have.

Well we have the most advanced and highest capacity piece of railroad in Indiana (and right up with anything on the eastern half of the county). Bar none. Sorry CSX but NS wins out here. Look at what NS has done. You have a line with completely new signals, solid infrastructure, and plenty of room for Amtrak. Adding fuel to the fire is that NS has TWO solid backup routes (Chicago District and CF&E) and a bypass route to the western carriers. (Kankakee)

And despite all of this. We still have an operator controlled CTC segment. Cummings Drawbridge operator controls 81st street to Osborn. I have reason to believe this may be the last operator controlled CTC on NS.

What is left to do?
Not much. The backup route needs some attention. The ex NKP route is only about 50% on the newer MCPs.

Kankakee wise
Schneider needs added to ATCS, and Belshaw simply had the old CR interlocking added to ATCS.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Well I should have checked the create webpage before posting....

The 75th street and Rock Island connection stuff just got fully funded.

http://www.createprogram.org/

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justalurker66
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

It is good to see the two create projects funded. I look forward to seeing the improvements come true!

tttodisp
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by tttodisp »

LakeATCS wrote:Well. It has been an interesting few years signal wise.

Create Englewood, Gateway, 2 Elkhart projects, Crossover additions over and above gateway, upgrades on the Chicago District and Kankakee, PTC. About four years of constant projects.

So now we have come to the end of most of it. So the question is? What is left, and what do we have.

Well we have the most advanced and highest capacity piece of railroad in Indiana (and right up with anything on the eastern half of the county). Bar none. Sorry CSX but NS wins out here. Look at what NS has done. You have a line with completely new signals, solid infrastructure, and plenty of room for Amtrak. Adding fuel to the fire is that NS has TWO solid backup routes (Chicago District and CF&E) and a bypass route to the western carriers. (Kankakee)

And despite all of this. We still have an operator controlled CTC segment. Cummings Drawbridge operator controls 81st street to Osborn. I have reason to believe this may be the last operator controlled CTC on NS.
The KN operator still controls CTC in the Kansas City District west of South Liberty, but you are probably right that these positions are quite rare. There is also the CJ dispatcher for the CR&I, which is really like an operator.

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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by NSSD70ACe »

LakeATCS wrote:Well I should have checked the create webpage before posting....

The 75th street and Rock Island connection stuff just got fully funded.

http://www.createprogram.org/
Not quite NS related but I noticed that with the 75th Street project, they want to reroute the Metra Southwest service from Union Station to LaSalle Street. Assume they did that, does anyone know how much room it would open up at CUS? The intent is to allow Amtrak more space for their operations.
Amtrak's here to stay. Deal with it.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

The station change is about giving Metra room to grow, and combine things to save some cost.

SWS will go to LaSalle Street Station.
This will free up space to move the Heritage Corridor from the north (Milwaukee End) to the south (CB&Q end) of Union Station.
This eliminates a headache move of the Heritage Corridor using the bypass tracks on the river side of the station to get to the north end. (A SEVERE HEADACHE for Metra and Amtrak)

All of the above plus the double track flyover, will enable the Metra to increase the number of trains that run on the SWS.
It would allow for the increase the number of trains the HC could handle too, if CN would agree.

Dan Cluley
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by Dan Cluley »

Just to clarify, Southwest Service is the old Wabash, and Heritage Corridor is the old GM&O to Joliet correct?

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

Dan Cluley wrote:Just to clarify, Southwest Service is the old Wabash, and Heritage Corridor is the old GM&O to Joliet correct?
yes

SWS = old Wabash, Later N&W "Orland Park Cannonball" (which used to be run out of Dearborne, and then Polk Street Station)
HC = Alton, GM&O, ICG, IC/CN "The Plug"

jpillinois
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by jpillinois »

LakeATCS wrote:The station change is about giving Metra room to grow, and combine things to save some cost.

SWS will go to LaSalle Street Station.
This will free up space to move the Heritage Corridor from the north (Milwaukee End) to the south (CB&Q end) of Union Station.
This eliminates a headache move of the Heritage Corridor using the bypass tracks on the river side of the station to get to the north end. (A SEVERE HEADACHE for Metra and Amtrak)

All of the above plus the double track flyover, will enable the Metra to increase the number of trains that run on the SWS.
It would allow for the increase the number of trains the HC could handle too, if CN would agree.
I dont think this is correct. The Heritage Corridor already goes into the CUS south concourse. The purpose of moving the SWS to LaSalle St station is to allow expansion of Amtrak Michigan/Illinois services - more Heritage services would be welcome but no one expects CN cooperation. Also the peak rush hour times are crazy for patrons on the south concourse. The north concourse handles MDNorth, MDWest and North Central Service as well as Amtrak Hiawatha and Empire Builder.

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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by NSSD70ACe »

jpillinois wrote: I dont think this is correct. The Heritage Corridor already goes into the CUS south concourse. The purpose of moving the SWS to LaSalle St station is to allow expansion of Amtrak Michigan/Illinois services - more Heritage services would be welcome but no one expects CN cooperation. Also the peak rush hour times are crazy for patrons on the south concourse. The north concourse handles MDNorth, MDWest and North Central Service as well as Amtrak Hiawatha and Empire Builder.
This is what I read on the CREATE site, or close to it anyway. Amtrak is kind of crammed into the one side of south concourse, leaving very little room for much else than current services. If Amtrak wants to expand the MI/IL services, trying to do it with the space they have in south concourse would be a logistical nightmare.
Amtrak's here to stay. Deal with it.

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justalurker66
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by justalurker66 »

jpillinois wrote:The Heritage Corridor already goes into the CUS south concourse.
I agree. The HC trains that pass Union Station are going between the yard north of the station and the platforms south of the station (out of service). Passenger arrivals and departures are on the south concourse of Union Station.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

The Metra Heritage corridor. Is weird. It heads in the south end, veers to the River Side, uses the bypass and actually unloads on an Amtrak (Hiawatha) platform on the north end.

Watch this video, or zoom to the end and you can see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ykMkvNmWY4

There are not many HC trains, 8 total both ways. So plenty of room for Amtrak to expand too.

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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by cbehr91 »

Does the Landers operator still control the Manhattan District (Metra Southwest Service line), or have those duties finally been conveyed to Metra?

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cbehr91
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by cbehr91 »

tttodisp wrote:
The KN operator still controls CTC in the Kansas City District west of South Liberty, but you are probably right that these positions are quite rare. There is also the CJ dispatcher for the CR&I, which is really like an operator.
Where is the KN operator physically located? In the couple of times I've been to Kansas City I don't recall ever hearing them on the radio.

tttodisp
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by tttodisp »

Based on the phone number in the timetable, it looks like probably in the North KC offices.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

cbehr91 wrote:Does the Landers operator still control the Manhattan District (Metra Southwest Service line), or have those duties finally been conveyed to Metra?
Metra controls all the former Wabash tracks in the Chicago area.

One more thing about the Heritage Corridor, the trains are serviced in the facility for the Milwaukee side Metra trains after stopping on the north end platform.

This leads to a weird sight of a train heading north out of CUS cab car first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i62gnX4wj2U&t=2828s

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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by tttodisp »

The Landers operator still controls from Landers west, under the supervision of Metra dispatcher.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

tttodisp wrote:The Landers operator still controls from Landers west, under the supervision of Metra dispatcher.
That is weird. The CTC is all on the Metra network. I imagine that will change with the move to the CRI&P

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Re: NS. So what is next.

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LakeATCS wrote:The Metra Heritage corridor. Is weird. It heads in the south end, veers to the River Side, uses the bypass and actually unloads on an Amtrak (Hiawatha) platform on the north end.

Watch this video, or zoom to the end and you can see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ykMkvNmWY4

There are not many HC trains, 8 total both ways. So plenty of room for Amtrak to expand too.
I did not know that. I used the CUS north concourse for 24 years. Always saw Amtrak over on the eastern tracks, At least the bypass tacks are getting some use.

LakeATCS
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Re: NS. So what is next.

Unread post by LakeATCS »

jpillinois wrote:
LakeATCS wrote:The Metra Heritage corridor. Is weird. It heads in the south end, veers to the River Side, uses the bypass and actually unloads on an Amtrak (Hiawatha) platform on the north end.

Watch this video, or zoom to the end and you can see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ykMkvNmWY4

There are not many HC trains, 8 total both ways. So plenty of room for Amtrak to expand too.
I did not know that. I used the CUS north concourse for 24 years. Always saw Amtrak over on the eastern tracks, At least the bypass tacks are getting some use.
Well because they use the bypass. The Hiawatha trains sitting in the station always block the view from the MILW stuff. If you watch in the video, you can see Amtrak trains between the HC train and the usual MILW stuff.

I think the Empire Builder and the HC share the same platform. The moves are not such a hassle, it is more the hassle of Amtrak having to let the passengers back that far in the concourse on the north side. That platform also doesn't have the direct stairs to the street. So everyone using the HC has to go thru CUS.

The Builder is the only other train to use the bypass daily. It being built up in the yard on the south end and sent up there. Metra and Amtrak do use the bypass for equipment moves.

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