Dream Shortline combo

[chapmaja]

With Marquette being bought out by RA, it made me wonder if the following combination would work as an RA line.

HESR (with CMGN), MMRR, AA. TSBY - This would form a railroad running from Toledo north to Durand, then a split going East to the Tri-Cities and thumb, and northwest to Cadillac and TC.

This combination would allow traffic from all three regions (Tri-Cities, Northern Michigan, Thumb) to be combined onto trains headed south to other interchange partners (IORY, NS, CSX).

From an economics standpoint it would appear to be a smart idea because if those lines merged now you have one railroad invovled from Toledo north instead of 2 or 3. This would seem to open a chance for traffic going to the Tri-Cities and thumb via NS to increase as well since only 2 railroads, not 3 or 4 would be invovled.

The second combo I would look for is the previously mentioned GRE-MMRR (GR-Lowell) and Marquette.

I know all of these would require significant reworking of agreements that are in place, but this is why they are DREAM combos.

[TrainWatcher]

I discussed this with a few people I know. RA really has to re-lay some track in a few areas and they could bypass CSX all together and really become competition. If the AA was bought or contracted to bring the freight off the NS at Toledo to Osmer for GLC. GLC to Owosso to HESR and to MMRR, it could send freight from Toledo to GR and other points maybe faster than CSX's notorious "How Tommorrow Moves, Yesterday" philosophy. On the other hand, would re-laying those sections of rail banked ROW's really pay off in the end for RA?

[atrainguy60]

Just for fun, I've wondered if CSX would eventually sell the Plymouth Sub to a shortline since it only has a couple of trains a day, and keep the Grand Rapids Sub since it has quite a few coal trains. If RA got the Plymouth Sub, and then got the AA and the GLC, they would also be connecting their west MI railroads with their thumb, mid MI, and northern MI railroads and also with the IORY and the CF&E. That would be a large shortline railroad. Actually, it would be a regional then, wouldn't it?

[MKT_fan11]

I discussed this with a few people I know. RA really has to re-lay some track in a few areas and they could bypass CSX all together and really become competition. If the AA was bought or contracted to bring the freight off the NS at Toledo to Osmer for GLC. GLC to Owosso to HESR and to MMRR, it could send freight from Toledo to GR and other points maybe faster than CSX's notorious "How Tommorrow Moves, Yesterday" philosophy. On the other hand, would re-laying those sections of rail banked ROW's really pay off in the end for RA?

RA has tried something like this in the past, in Indiana. I believe the routing was TPW Peoria Illinois area to Logansport, Indiana, CERA Kokomo, Indiana to CIND somewhere else down that way. Unfortunately, part of their system involved a lease of NS track, which NS revoked after RA started routing trains over RA rails instead of NS rails. If they ever try a move like that again, it would be to their advantage to be sure they actually control the entire route.

[chapmaja]

RA has tried something like this in the past, in Indiana. I believe the routing was TPW Peoria Illinois area to Logansport, Indiana, CERA Kokomo, Indiana to CIND somewhere else down that way. Unfortunately, part of their system involved a lease of NS track, which NS revoked after RA started routing trains over RA rails instead of NS rails. If they ever try a move like that again, it would be to their advantage to be sure they actually control the entire route.

These is a pretty big difference between the issue with NS and Michigan. If they bought the GLC and AA they would basically controll everything they run on. The only tracks they wouldn't own (exception, State owned) would be the Yard in Durand and from Durand to Pitt Junction. I don't think given the legal agreements that are in place regarding the removal of the AA main in 1974, that CN could do anything to stop use of the tracks from the diamond south to Pitt Junction.

The only think CN could control is the use of the yard since that I think is still CN owned. I don't think CN would have a beef because I don't think they carry in HESR traffic to NS anyway. In fact depending the agreement for use of the yard in Durand, they might actually prefer a combination with access to NS because it might bring more revenue to CN based on yard usage patterns.

[chapmaja]

I just thought of one more minor little thing that would result from an AA-GLC-HESR/CMGN merger into one railroad. All of the Owosso customers would then again be served from Owosso instead of another railroad coming from Durand.

Here is how operations on my "dream" shortline would work.

The south end operations from Osmer south would basically remain the same. The Owosso-Osmer turn would start from Durand instead of Owosso because of the increase in traffic coming from the HESR. This would make a better starting and endpoint point for this train simply because of the switching required to sort what should hopefully be increased traffic. The current Owosso North train would also start/end in Durand. They could make a setoff in San Yard for traffic going to Oakley/Middleton/Owosso. Owosso would remain as the base for the local operations and GLC grain traffic. In addition, the equipment shops in Owosso would remain the railroads shops as well.

I don't know what type of engine facilities the AA has in Toledo, but they don't seem as sophisticated as what the GLC has in Owosso.

With the exception of the new starting points and local operations in Owosso, the GLC operations would remain very similar. The AA operations also would remain similar. So would the operations of the HESR/CMGN away from Durand.


What might be interesting operationally would be grain on the MMRR from Breckenridge. Currently that traffic goes via SBS out of Saginaw to CSX in Flint. The traffic could, at CSX's discretion I'm sure, be transfered to the combined shortline via Toledo as well. This could streamline grain operations.

[TSB]

As I have nothing else to do, (has it been more than six years?) I might as well join
your Empire Builders cabal.

First, I would expect to deliver all southbound trains to and from Pitt by the Durand
Yard job. Then there should be (or soon will be) enough traffic to operate two Pitt to
Toledo turns. AM and PM south runs (marshalled in Toledo) can be coordinated with
the eastern and western operations north of Durand. The western traffic can be shutteled
thru to Owosso to save space in Durand. Operations north would be cascaded from their
Toledo arrivals.

Forget the Turkey Trail.

[AARR]

First, I would expect to deliver all southbound trains to and from Pitt by the Durand
Yard job. Then there should be (or soon will be) enough traffic to operate two Pitt to
Toledo turns.

Is there a siding near Pitt that can be used? If not how would the cars be transferred between the Toledo-Pitt Turn and Durand Yard job?

[SD80MAC]

First, I would expect to deliver all southbound trains to and from Pitt by the Durand
Yard job. Then there should be (or soon will be) enough traffic to operate two Pitt to
Toledo turns.

Is there a siding near Pitt that can be used? If not how would the cars be transferred between the Toledo-Pitt Turn and Durand Yard job?

Pitt siding, just south of the Chicago wye switch.

[AARR]

Is there a siding near Pitt that can be used? If not how would the cars be transferred between the Toledo-Pitt Turn and Durand Yard job?

Pitt siding, just south of the Chicago wye switch.[/quote]
Because that is on the CN lined I was not sure if GLC or HESR could exchange trains there. But it would be perfect if they could, wouldn't it!

[TSB]

First year savings far more than pay for two new long sidings.

The bottleneck to most worry about is the crossing of CN. Understand that
they will always give priority to their traffic. Don't female dog, live with it.

[GTW6401]

Just for fun, I've wondered if CSX would eventually sell the Plymouth Sub to a shortline since it only has a couple of trains a day, and keep the Grand Rapids Sub since it has quite a few coal trains. If RA got the Plymouth Sub, and then got the AA and the GLC, they would also be connecting their west MI railroads with their thumb, mid MI, and northern MI railroads and also with the IORY and the CF&E. That would be a large shortline railroad. Actually, it would be a regional then, wouldn't it?

Rail America would have their own route into Grand Rapids if the old GTW line from Owosso was still in place. Central Michigan dumped it in the 90s.

[DT&I]

Well this is pretty much a paper railroad...

[TSB]

This is pretty much a message board.

[AARR]

First year savings far more than pay for two new long sidings.

The bottleneck to most worry about is the crossing of CN. Understand that
they will always give priority to their traffic. Don't female dog, live with it.

Ok, when do we start?