End of Coal Power Plants? EPA Proposes New Rules

[AARR]

Affects trains

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10886373-end-of-coal-power-plants-epa-proposes-new-rules

[MQT3001]

In order to move to Natural Gas, we'll need pipelines, but we can't build those either

[atrainguy60]

Can trains be used for natural gas movement?

[MQT3001]

Can trains be used for natural gas movement?

Yes, but it's EXTREMELY inefficient. Pipelines move things constantly, while trains are one block at a time...

[atrainguy60]

Yes, but it's EXTREMELY inefficient. Pipelines move things constantly, while trains are one block at a time...

They should use trains just because trains are cooler than pipelines.

[MQT3001]

Yes, but it's EXTREMELY inefficient. Pipelines move things constantly, while trains are one block at a time...

They should use trains just because trains are cooler than pipelines.

Fine, you pay for the extra billions per year....

[80mac]

Yes, but it's EXTREMELY inefficient. Pipelines move things constantly, while trains are one block at a time...

They should use trains just because trains are cooler than pipelines.

Fine, you pay for the extra billions per year....

Trust me with the EPA taking coal out of the mix we will all be paying for our electricity. Maybe not right away with the low NG prices we currently are seeing, but wait until the first cold winter

[Y@]

Maybe not right away with the low NG prices we currently are seeing, but wait until the first cold winter

After the winter we just had, I'm inclined to believe one of two things. Either, A.) This year was a complete fluke and we're going to get sh*t on next winter. Or, B.) It's never going to snow again.

[Jochs]

Maybe not right away with the low NG prices we currently are seeing, but wait until the first cold winter

After the winter we just had, I'm inclined to believe one of two things. Either, A.) This year was a complete fluke and we're going to get sh*t on next winter. Or, B.) It's never going to snow again.

Maybe this winter was to make up for last winter, as we here in S MI had about 10 ft of snow last winter, but the current winter so far has given us only about 2 ft. There's still some potential snowfall, as winter totals include Oct-May. April snow is not uncommon, and May snow is rare.

[Y@]

Maybe this winter was to make up for last winter, as we here in S MI had about 10 ft of snow last winter, but the current winter so far has given us only about 2 ft. There's still some potential snowfall, as winter totals include Oct-May. April snow is not uncommon, and May snow is rare.

Oh yeah, I'm sure we'll get some freak blizzard in the middle of April. Probably a good 6-8 feet of snow.

[GLC 392]

The end is near for Coal except for export it may not be tomorrow next year or even 10 years but it will be sooner then it should be. I see this at work our coal docks are not running at all due to power plants switching to NG and the Marcellus shale gas and even when i am near the NS they are down, in the last 4 months or so traffic has went down quite a bit coal wise including empties. we are hauling the pipe for the Shale gas to a plant that is doing the coating for the shale shale and NG pipe lines. People around here are getting offered 20 plus years worth of building pipelines if they want the job. The shortlines are hauling the fraqing sand as well and it is very very Big Business.

I saw a post/article on another board that steel mills are thinking of switch to NG to power the steel mills instead of coal which will take another big hit not so much where i work as everything we make uses coke(Even though Coke is made from coal) and coke gas but all the mines down south that ship to these mills will be hurting worse then they are now coal is already starting to make a down hill trip. Most steel mills still use coke to make the actual steel which will help out the mines a little bit not a lot but will help and to my knowledge coke burns hotter then NG i am not 100% sure though. The biggest coke burners that i know of are USS Great Lakes works, Gary Works, andMon Valley Work, Arcelor Mittal in Cleveland and also Burns Harbor, Coke is also now being shipped to a USS plant in Fairfield Al.

The Environmental Hippies are also going after the Carferry SS Badger that runs from Ludington to Milwaukee and it still burns coal, if they get their way it will stop burning coal and probably stop running all together which if this happens Steam Locomotives will be next on the chopping block.... i have my opinions about the EPA but they are to vocal for this board

[J T]

Oh my, how have we managed to survive all these years with the burning of coal.

[ns8401]

Oh my, how have we managed to survive all these years with the burning of coal.

I was born wearing a mask You?

[J T]

Oh my, how have we managed to survive all these years with the burning of coal.

I was born wearing a mask You?

You know, the air couldn't be any fresher in the West Olive area along the lakeshore.

[Jochs]

Maybe this winter was to make up for last winter, as we here in S MI had about 10 ft of snow last winter, but the current winter so far has given us only about 2 ft. There's still some potential snowfall, as winter totals include Oct-May. April snow is not uncommon, and May snow is rare.

Oh yeah, I'm sure we'll get some freak blizzard in the middle of April. Probably a good 6-8 feet of snow.

I never said we were going to have 6 to 8 ft. of snow, but a snowstorm with several inches is not out of the question this time of the year. In 1993, in March, Atlanta was hit with a blizzard, which was only about 4 inches, but crippling for a Southern town.
http://web.me.com/atlwx/wxhistory/files/19930313-blizzard_93.html
Based on the weather this past winter, if it does snow again, it will be minor and melt within a few hours of the storm.

[AARR]

It ticks me off to no end that the people who make our energy policy decisions do not have to live under their own mandates. If they are right then all will be well but if they are wrong, and in this current administrations case I believe they are wrong, we are left to suffer the consequences while they continue to live like royalty.

It must drive railroads nuts kissing the @$$ of this administration promoting their railroads as "green friendly" only to have the same administration stab them in the back by taking away a significant source of income/profit even though man-made global warming is only a theory and not scientifically proven.

[J T]

In 1993, in March, Atlanta was hit with a blizzard, which was only about 4 inches, but crippling for a Southern town.

Dude, ONE inch is crippling for a southern town!

[CSX_CO]

I saw a post/article on another board that steel mills are thinking of switch to NG to power the steel mills instead of coal which will take another big hit not so much where i work as everything we make uses coke(Even though Coke is made from coal) and coke gas but all the mines down south that ship to these mills will be hurting worse then they are now coal is already starting to make a down hill trip. Most steel mills still use coke to make the actual steel which will help out the mines a little bit not a lot but will help and to my knowledge coke burns hotter then NG i am not 100% sure though.

Seeing as you work around the mills, you probably know this, but the coke is put in as an 'additive' to help give the melt of steel the correct carbon content as requested by the customer. GM Foundry in defiance would get coke too to give their castings the correct carbon content. Its 'pure' carbon, all the impurities (Sulphur, etc). Not sure how much the mills use it as a fuel? I believe there is another grade of 'coke' that might be better suited to burning. Met Coke maybe? INRD ships some of that out of Illinois (Robinson, IL IIRC) to Madison, WI for the U of W (MadGas) and its denser then the coke you see in the "Coke Express" hoppers.

I do know the coke plant in Indianapolis, when it was running, helped fire the boilers on the steam plant downtown. Bake the coal, capture the coke gasses from the top of the ovens, piped it downtown, and used it to help fire the steam boilers for the offices downtown. That's how "Citizens Gas" in Indianapolis got its start. City ran the coke plant, Citizens benefited from the 'free' gas off the process, and the city made some money on the coke.

Practice Safe CSX

[C30-7A]

Like Steven, I could be vocal about a few things (probably not the same things he's concerned with) but given the general intolerance for political stuff here, I shall refrain.

I will say these two things though:
1. I can't predict next winter, but I can say with some certainty this may become more of a norm over time...
2. Regardless of the shifting from coal to natural gas or any other energy policies, there is one thing we all need to remember that nobody here has brought up. Probably because nobody really wants to acknowledge it.
Coal (and oil and natural gas) is NOT an infinite resource. We WILL run out of it at some point. Then what do we do??
Regardless of your opinions on the EPA, it's better to start looking into or investing in alternative energy sources now than at the very last minute.

All I have to say.

Actually, a P.S. for Steven. The Badger was given an exemption from new policy so they can keep dumping coal ash into its harbors on Lake Michigan. It's safe for now.

[J T]

1. I can't predict next winter, but I can say with some certainty this may become more of a norm over time...

And that certainty is based on what? We are one year removed from one of our snowiest winters (and it was pretty darn cold), yet you're using THIS year's model as a basis for future prediction? Interesting.